The Toll feat. Michael Nader

Someone's coming. You don't believe me now, but you will. You're someplace else. You're in his place. Whose place? The tall man. He's not like you and me. He's not a man at all. But he has his ways of getting what he wants. You're stuck on his road until he gets his toll. What does he want? Death. Hello, Sydney. Hi. Who is this? It's your killer host. My name is Parker, your resident horror fanatic. And keep listening because this episode features a very exciting interview with the writer and director of the toll, Michael Nader. And welcome to. Welcome listeners to another episode of What's Your Favorite Scary Movie? I'm so excited for this episode where I'll be talking to you about the brand new horror movie.

That's right, it came out on Friday, March 26th. So 6th. So you can watch it right now if you haven't already and come right back for this episode because it's going to be so good. Because not only is it just me today, but I'm going to be joined by the incredible writer and director of the toll, Michael Nader. So hold on to your britches because that's going to be coming up in just a sec. As I just spoiled, the toll was written and directed by Michael Nader, who also wrote Headcount in 2018, but this is officially his directoral debut. Congratulations and incredible job, Michael. The toll stars Jordan Hayes as Cami. Jordan Hayes has also starred in House at the End of the Street from 2012 and the sci-fi series Helix.

And also she worked as a producer on the toll. The toll also stars Max Toplin as Spencer. He was in the 2013 remake of Carrie. The stars show Insomnia and Suits. And Max worked on the toll as a producer as well. So if you haven't seen the toll, which I just told you to go do, so go freaking do it. But if you haven't anyway and you've ignored my advice, here is the spoilerific summary of the toll. So Cammy just flew into town to visit her father and hitches a ride with an Uber driver, Spencer, from the airport. All of the official summaries of the toll describe him as socially awkward, but I just call him fucking nosy as hell.

As they drive, Cammy gets more and more put off by how pushy his questions are until the car breaks down in the middle of a really woodsy street. Obviously she thinks it's a trick, but she and Spencer slowly start to discover that the rules of reality seem to be broken here as space and time seem to become undefined. An old lady happens upon them and lets them know, in the most spooky way possible, of course, that they are trapped in the Toll Man's realm, an alternate reality where they must pay him in blood to return to their home dimension. She also warns them that if they let him see them, he can get into their minds and cause hallucinations.

So they ignore that advice completely and head into the woods to confront the Toll Man, where they have hallucinations. The hallucinations at first seem focused on turning Cammy and Spencer against one another, but then shift to reveal their backstories. Spencer's mother was a cruel lady that died when he was young, and Cammy was assaulted by an air quotes nice guy, and no one believed her about it. They get back to the car, chased by the toll man and an army of women in white dresses, and are told that the toll man only requires one of them to die. Cammy says she won't kill him because she doesn't want to live knowing someone died to save her.

But Spencer says he was a murderer the whole time and was planning to kill Cammy anyway. So uh he shoots her with an arrow. But thankfully he goes to investigate her body and she maces him and stabs him in the neck with an arrow. Cammy returns to our home dimension and her father and the police show up to save her the end. Now, as of March twenty-eighth, when this was recorded, the critic's score on Rotten Tomatoes is eighty-eight percent, the audience score sixty-seven percent, and there is not yet a critic's consensus. And before I get to giving you my consensus, why don't we head straight over to that interview between me and the writer director of the toll, Michael Nader?

First of all, congratulations. Uh thank you. Thank you so much. Very exciting. I uh so I watched it last night and I was really fascinated by how many concepts and interesting ideas you have woven into your story. And I'm wondering, like, what was the very first idea uh that you had for the toll that really sparked the whole product we have? The very beginning idea was actually just the opening shot. Um, I mean, I've I've been interested in the dynamics of ride share for a long time. Um, and I just had I literally just had the visual of a close-up on an iPhone with a ride share app open, and you see like an unseen driver and you see him swiping no on two female passengers and then yes on a on a male passenger.

Because then I just thought, okay, what if you could just do a long opening sequence? I love the idea of having a like a one-act play at the opening, uh, where you set up this really tense relationship between uh a driver and a passenger. Um and that you could kind of that you could just go through this whole progression in this very claustrophobic environment of uh, you know, that she, you're gonna you're gonna get little bits of information about both of them. You're not really gonna see him very much. So he's gonna be this sort of unknown figure where he's either kind of funny or creepy. Uh, and that then you could just use that as like as the the sort of uh jumping off point for for a story set in a supernatural horror world.

So obviously, yeah, I mean that's it it really began in that way, and it certainly lent itself, I agree, to like a lot of different things just because it was inherently, I was kind of like mashing two movies together right away, where I was like, let's put a thriller set in a rideshare and throw them into a classical horror movie. Yeah, and I wonder, can you talk a little bit more about that? Because the the last twist of the the movie is brutal. And I'm wondering like what your thoughts are on balancing like that supernatural aspect with that like psycho twist. I do think it's a it's a it hasn't been done a lot. And so on some level it it's it makes you go, is this just crazy?

Is there a reason why this hasn't been done? But I it's on one on the one hand, I I think I just trust that it feels like it's something that can work, that you can have human evil and supernatural evil in the same movie. I just instinctively feel like that's that's the case. And then you also you do have predecessors. I think specifically the the one that I always reference, even though it's a different genre, is 10 Cloverfield Lane, which is where you're afraid of John Goodman the entire time. And it is a thriller about wait, is there even a supernatural threat at all? But then it is also a movie about an alien threat. And so I felt like there was at least I knew that it could be done.

But it's hard to balance. And I I genuinely looked at it as the first quarter of the movie is a thriller. Then the next two quarters are supernatural horror, and then the final quarter, you know, really effectively the last eight or nine minutes is as a thriller again. And I think on the thematic level, it's like I it's it's saying something from my point of view, which is I I think the supernatural is scary, but it's also beautiful and ambiguous. I'm agnostic about the supernatural. Whereas I feel like I know pretty well that human beings, we've established pretty well the capacity of human beings to be to be evil. And so I think on some level, it's like the whole movie is is I I want to use the combination of the human threat and the supernatural threat to say to kind of keep going back and forth, like, okay, which one is scarier to us?

To then finally say, at least to me, I find Spencer to be a scarier uh entity in in every way than the Tollman. Because at least the Tollman, at least in the unknown, there's the possibility of something redeeming. And I think in Spencer, you you see him for all that he is. You really like he is exposed for everything that he is by the end of the movie, and the toll man is still a mystery. Yeah. Uh, and I'm curious a little bit more. I mean, you mentioned Tim Cloverfield Lane, but like what are other inspirations? Like, is horror like your your big inspiration for all of your work? I would say, I mean, there's definitely I have sort of my horror inspirations than my non-horror inspirations.

I think in the horror realm, I really, I mean, I love uh I'm I'm a huge fan of horror movies, but I do think there is so much outside of film in the horror genre that can that can be used. And I I wish uh we were sort of taking more cues from sort of horror writing and horror games and horror comics. I just think there's a it's it's such a vast genre going back to telling scary stories around the fire all the way to sort of lively core, you know, sort of like finding creepy things online that are evocative and strange. Um so I have a I feel like I have a broad, you know, I have a fairly sort of broad uh there's so many things, even uh sort of horror attractions, like theme park attractions, like Halloween Horror Nights, is a is a has always been a big influence for me.

Um on the movie flip, uh two movies that I would say were influences on this, uh The Innocence from 1961, which is just one of my favorite horror movies, and then Carnival of Souls, which is also a 60s movie, um, that are just both very they use stillness and silence really well. Um and and I wanted to, and they use stillness and silence, but then they at the at certain moments they kind of build up that uh that sort of atmosphere of stillness to then have these explosive kinetic moments when when things actually happen. Um and so that was sort of the stylistic idea. And then two other big movies that I would say were influences that are thrillers, not necessarily horror movies, are Karin Kasama's The Invitation.

Um, I mean, that's such a movie where it's it's just a back and forth of are these people what I think they are or not. And the entire movie is is that pendulum of wait, are is that what's happening or not? And you really like she demonstrates that you can you can keep that up the whole movie, and that also once you the tw that you can have a twist just be that yes, everything you thought was happening is happening, and that that can be shocking. And I so I I love that movie. And then the other one that was a big influence is an Argentinian film called Wild Tales, directed by Damien Safron. Um, and it's actually it's an anthology movie, it's five short films.

Um, but he has this, it's actually he, I think he sort of was the predecessor unconsciously for movies like Knives Out and Parasite, which are, I think, all three of those movies are really about just characters doing things that are totally realistic but also shocking, and just having the sort of thrills and suspense that are driven from just people interacting with each other, uh, and and that you can have something that's kind of hilarious but also terrifying. Um, so so that was you know, that was another big influence. And I wish more people saw that movie because it's a masterpiece. Yeah, I haven't seen it, so I'll have to put it on my list. I highly recommend, yeah.

Do uh so now I'm curious, like a little bit more of the technicals. Uh so this is like a pretty contained setting movie, but for all the settings to pick, I feel like the middle of the woods is a tough one. So I wonder if you could just talk a little bit about setting up these like fantastical situations in like an open forest. Well, I do think the the conventional way of shooting the middle of the woods does make it hard because conventionally you would just put up a mass of light as the moon and you can kind of see everything. Um, and it's a flat kind of endless space, right? Of just a desert of trees.

And the intention on this was very much let it be as naturalistic as possible, where almost the entire frame is just black a lot of the time. And I think that's the key, is that it's more that and and it that helps thematically too because they're kind of in this limbo, like they're almost in a you could sort of see them in this just kind of vast empty cosmic space. Um, and and so I think it it it's more that it's a it feels like a sort of a sandbox because that's what the Tolman is gonna do is he's gonna throw up all these sorts, he's gonna like generate these psychological environments for them. Um, and I also think to me it was less about, you know, it was more about the road itself and being around this car.

Um, because I love that environment and I love, you know, keeping it is the it's like claustrophobic one second when she's in the car. And then it's the kind of vastness of where are we? We're just surrounded by darkness. And I like that transposing those two things. It's like claustrophobia and agoraphobia are your two options, and there's no, there's no sort of safe middle ground. So I really was sticking, I agree that the woods are a hard place to shoot. And so for me, I was like, okay, it's not the woods, it's like you've got a road and then there's a detour, and and really like finding these anchors to go and find these smaller settings to stick on to.

Awesome. Well, then I just have two more quick questions. The first one's what is your favorite scary movie if you had to pick one? My favorite scary movie is uh a film called Come and See. And it's uh from the 80s, Alem Klimov. It's it was made in the Soviet Union. It's not necessarily a horror movie. I think it's a horror movie, but it's a war film set in World War II, and it's the most terrifying movie I've ever seen. And it's hallucinatory. I think it's influenced a lot of horror movies. I know like Chernobyl was influenced by it recently, but it's just it's a very it's so disturbing and hallucinatory and insane, and I highly recommend it.

Incredible. And then the last one is just like anything we can look forward to coming up from you next. I have lots of stuff in the coming up the you know, I've I've got scripts. I'm I'm trying to hopefully uh that that once the toll is released, some we'll we'll I'll pick one and we'll we'll start getting the next one going. But you know, trying to do what I did with the toll, but bigger and and better. Incredible. So it's all in the cooker. Well, I'll look forward to that. And uh thank you so much for uh chatting. Yeah, thank you. Well, I hope you enjoyed that interview between myself and the writer-director of the toll, Michael Nader.

I'm so glad that we got to chat with him to get all of his awesome thoughts on the toll. Now, to get over to my thoughts on the toll, the first thing that I really love about the toll is the way that the movie is divided into sections. It starts by building the tension up between Cammy and Spencer, then transitions over to the Toll Man and all that supernatural stuff, and then at the end it combines them both. I thought that was really exciting, and uh, like Michael said, an interesting combination of two different types of horror movie here. That said, I don't find the Toll Man particularly well utilized as a monster. I was never particularly scared of him because the movie spends more time making the like supernatural psychological torment happen.

So I'd maybe have preferred there was like like no literal monster at all. It could be like bird box or something, where we're seeing all the things that are happening and all those memories and stuff, but do we actually need like uh a man in in makeup and a costume? Um, and that said, I don't know if I'm missing something or not connecting some dots, but the design reminded me a lot of that uh like poster monster they use at Crypt TV. I thought the similarities between those were bizarre. But maybe they were supposed to be. So don't don't take that as drama. I'm not causing any drama. I also thought that the claustrophobia of the car was much more enjoyable to me and more scary than when they actually got to the woods.

Uh so I'm a massive Westworld fan. I love a good mindfuck and some crazy fantasy shit, obviously. But I'm not really sure that those uh like memory vignette things really accomplished that in the end. I think that the lore of the Toll Man, the mythology, is a little too fluid and undefined to really impactfully create like the fabric of a movie that you can successfully examine the tiny threads of like the movie's trying to get you to do. In fact, I find it very strange that Cammy's backstory revolves around her thinking she will never trust a man again, and then we want the best for her, but then Spencer was a murderer the whole time. I think that's pretty fucking sinister.

But overall, the twist at the end I think is incredibly shocking and pulled off exceptionally well. The movie starts by making us all think Spencer's a creep, but then really expertly makes us think, oh, I'm just like Cammy. We're being serious judge Judy's, and now they can work together and bond and overcome their issues. That's a pretty well-woven rug that is then yanked out. I thought that was expertly managed, whether I find the implications of that betrayal icky or not. So I think that this movie was pretty fun. I think that it feels a little tiny bit underdeveloped to me, but um overall I think super solid. And like he was saying, if this is the calling card, I think that's a pretty cool thing to promise uh, you know, bigger, uh, bigger things in the future as he grows more and more fans.

So uh I think it's perfectly fine, and I had a good time, and I hope you did too watching this. There's only one murder in the toll, except no, there wasn't, because that woman smashed that baby into that window so many times. Uh, but no, for the uh most memorable murder, I will not be selecting the smashed baby. But I would say even though that there's one main murder, it's my most memorable. The murder of uh Spencer and the events connected to that, I think were pretty shocking, pretty exciting, and pretty cool. And so I love that that was pulled off so expertly. So I didn't need any more murders to decide that that was the most memorable.

On a scary scale, one being the least scary, five being the most scary, I'm perhaps controversially going to put this at a 1.5. I think that I did not find the toll particularly scary ever. Um I like I said, I thought there was some nice uh tension, but really just all suspicion, and then that's, you know, confirmed at the end. So I think that it does a good job with that relationship between Cammy and Spencer, but uh I don't know, not very scary for me besides a couple of good jumps. And so would I give the toll a smash or a slash? Uh I'm gonna give it a smash. It's uh pretty close to down the center for me, but I do think this was an interesting, unique, and like kind of an exciting movie.

I didn't find it scary, but I did find it thrilling in ways. And on that note, I will not be awarding the toll my favorite scary movie. And this may come as a shock to you if you do not subscribe to our Patreon, which you should because we've been putting up some killer episodes there. My favorite scary movie right now is The Strangers Prey at Night. That bad boy is so good, and so is our review of it, that you can check out at patreon.com slash scary moviepod. Alright. So next time on what's your favorite scary movie, we're just gonna be shifting around our schedule a little bit. We will not have an episode on Monday, April 5th.

Our next episode is going to be Monday, April 12th. But if Monday the 12th sounds like it's decades away and you just can't wait, we're going to be releasing an episode on Friday, April 9th, over on our Patreon on Godzilla vs. Kong. So you're not going to want to miss that. So make sure you subscribe to our Patreon. So my name is Parker Heron. You can find me on Instagram and Twitter and Letterboxed at Parker Delray. You can find what's your favorite scary movie on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter at ScarymoviePod. Again, make sure you hit up our Patreon where we're releasing more and more awesome content at patreon.com slash scary moviepod. Lastly, you can always check out our website at scarymoviepod.com, or you can send us any feedback you have at scarymoviepod at gmail.com.

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