Pet Sematary (1989) feat. Julieann Marie

What is this place? I brought you here to bury Elmaroon's cat. Daddy, church. Why, Judge? I dreamed he got hit by a car and you and Mr. Crandall buried him in the pet cemetery. What did we do tonight, Judge? What we did was May the Lord bless you and keep you. Has anyone ever married a person? May the Lord make his face to shine upon you. Stephen King's all-time best-selling table. It's your killer host. My name is Parker, your resident horror fanatic. And I'm Julianne, your A24 horror. And welcome to. Welcome, listeners, to another episode of What's Your Favorite Scary Movie? I missed you. I'm joined by my favorite horror genius, Julianne. Hi, Parker. Did you miss me?

Back from the head. Ooh, she's always got that uh serial killer ASMR going. I was trying to think of what Rachel says to at the end when he when she's when she's dead. I was trying to think of what she says and say that, but I can't, I forget. I forget. So you get that. We get that. You should work on your impressions because that didn't even cross my mind. Well, Rachel, who's that? Of course. She is the wife of the protagonist. Wow, what a sexist thing to say. Well, she is, because she's not the protagonist. She literally is, yeah. I mean so wife of the protagonist of Pet Cemetery, which you may be thinking, oh gross, you already did that movie.

Wasn't it boring? Well, that was the 2019 one, of course. Yes, we are zooming back in time, uh in uh 10, 20, 30 years prior to that movie, to Pet Cemetery 1989. The original adaptation. This was my first chunk of a horror film. I didn't see the whole thing. Let me explain. Let me explain. So I was five years old. So it was so it had been out for like six years at that point. We were at a family vacation home, or not ours, but like a friend's, and there was a bunch of the older kids like sitting in the living room watching it. And I came out and I was like, not supposed to be awake.

I kind of petered out and I looked, and it was the shot of freaking Pascal, his blue, his blue ass skin and his big head, gushing wound, and and and it scared the living shit out of me. It's like you know, this the scene the shot where he's in the door frame of the doctor. What the hell is his name in the movie? Who's the only kid's name? What's Creed, Creed? And he's like, Hi, Doc, let's go to the you know, he kind of like kind of tells him to join him and stuff, and like that, I I'm telling you, Parker, I was scarred for life. I didn't even get to it. This was a very formative movie for me.

It scared me. And I eventually, of course, now I love it, but like most people are scared of another character, which we'll get into. I didn't even see her, I didn't even get to that. Pascal was my he's like my first real like big horror scare. And so this movie's very special to me. Well, and look at you judging books by their covers. Because of course, Pascal is very kind. He's benevolent, but when you're five years old and see his blue ass skin and big head, the gushing wound in his head, what else are you gonna think? You're gonna think, damn, like that's like he's he's like Freddie Krueger. That's what I thought. Now, were you wearing like a blue velvet dress, a top hat, and a cane?

No comment. Okay. No comment. Uh all right. Well, I I just immediately you have my cogs turning, and I want to discuss things, but too soon, too soon. We have to get there. Growers, not showers, of course. Now, Pet Cemetery, uh, a unique uh entry into the 80s horror canon because it was directed by Mary Lambert, a woman. Yeah, yeah. She um I this is how many how many Stephen King adaptations would would you say you've seen? Like a good one. A billion? Like this is I mean, like we we all know that they have a reputation of not being always the best. I mean, there's like a handful that are like fantastic, but overall they're kind of like eh.

This one is always considered like eh, but to me, I think it I think it's it's yeah, it's campy, it's contrived, like yeah, whatever. But it's a good ass movie. Hey, critic, calm down. We're not there yet. Well, you know what? I got shit to say. I love this movie. So back to Mary Lambert, not Julianne Marie, Mary Lambert. That's who we're talking about today. She also directed Pet Cemetery 2, 1992. Have you seen that? That one's not great. I think it has like a cult following, but I I wouldn't recommend it necessarily. But if you're I'd never even heard of it. Yeah, yeah, she she exists. Well, more important than Pet Cemetery 2, she directed Halloween Town 2 Calabar's Revenge from 2001.

Iconic. She also directed another one I haven't seen, Urban Legends Bloody Mary from 2005. I haven't seen that either. You know what? I Urban Legends, I'm not even sure if I've ever seen the entire movie, if I'm being honest. Which is which I I'm a big slasher, like I'm a huge slasher fan, but I I know, but I just feel like the early 2000s ones, I was kind of like they're here and miss for me. So watch it. But what she was more known for at the time was a lot of music videos. She was quite the um the music video queen. She had done a ton for Madonna, including Like a Prayer. Iconic music video.

Iconic. She had done quite a few for Janet Jackson, including Control. She had done ones for the Gogo's, the Eurythmics, Rod Stewart, Motley Crewe, Lionel Ritchie, etc. And this is actually how she came to know the Ramones and asked them to do that rad credits song. Cool. Well, and also in um in the scene uh in which the semi hits down a little boy, we won't give it away yet, but but but uh he's he's the truck driver's listening to the Ramones, Sheila is a punk rocker, and then it's like braceless. But yeah, but yeah, the Ramones are very prevalent in this movie, and then I think that it kind of adds to like the um campy-ish, fun, kind of colorful, like eight late 80s horror that it is, right?

Yeah, and speaking of 80s, which have nothing to do with this man, but you know, he was alive. This movie was written by someone you might have heard of, Stephen King. And yes, he wrote the screenplay as well as the book. I'm not talking books only, he wrote the screenplay too. Now I have not that I have not read the book. I I really want to. I I heard it's really, really dark. And have you read it before? Uh I have read, so I'm sorry, I'm sorry to the world. I've read a small, probably the first third of it, and was just like, you know what? A little dry for me. I'm going to read something else.

Yeah. It sounds a little like dark where because like a lot of it, I mean, all his books are based on are like kind of some somewhat based on his life, but like because of the incidents of he all like his his son almost got hit by a semi and like all this stuff was happening. Like, I kind of am afraid some of the Adam Mold deaths were a little hit too close to home, and I'm like, I don't know if I could read the book, but I'm I want to try. Yeah, uh he so yeah, a lot of he basically lived this book, except he just is not a doctor. Um but because I had read a lot about this before our first Pet Cemetery episode, which you can listen to from season one, I believe.

I don't know, old episode. But um before I even met you. Yeah. Um, but this was a book that notoriously Stephen King wrote and thought it was just too scary. So he locked it away in a drawer um until his wife found it and was like, let's get this out there. And then he even had trouble getting it published because it's about children dying. I think that's what makes this so harrowing, but we'll get into that. Oh I'm not done. I'm not done. I have much to say about Stephen King. I prefer his short stories because his his full-length novels are a little long-winded for me. Uh, I love the body, which is what Stand By Me is based on.

Right, right. Yeah, he kind of goes off the rails a lot. I think that's what I but but this story seems more grounded. That's why I'm curious to read it because I I don't like his too off-the-wall stuff, you know what I mean? Yeah, and I'm not saying it was bad, it's just that I have a very short attention span these days, and that was just not tickling the itch. Um he also has written the screenplay for quite a few movies, including Creep Show from 1982, Maximum Overdrive from 1986, which he also directed, Sleepwalkers from 1992, which was his first original movie uh screenplay, and Mick Garris' The Shining Miniseries from 1997. Bangers. And you'll never guess who did the special effects makeup for this movie.

Tell us PH. A couple of bros named Lance and Dave Anderson, the latter of whom is married to Heather Langencamp. And he actually proposed to that queen during shooting for uh Pet Cemetery. Yeah, I didn't know that. That's cool. Yeah, in Maine. Yeah, Maine. Do you know? Does Stephen King even like that place? Maine? Yeah, I don't like. Has he even heard of it? He still lives there, so I I think so. I mean, I god, I would kill to see his ever see pictures of his mansion. Yeah, uh, he's obsessed with Maine, Julianne. I can't believe you would doubt that I would know. Maine is like the only thing he ever talks about. But I just I would love to see his mansion is gorgeous.

Like, people he lets people take pictures in front of his gate like all the time. Like it's just like it's right there. Like, well, part of the reason this movie had so much trouble getting made is because Stephen King wrote in the contract it has to be shot in Maine. Yeah, yeah. I wonder, I don't think I mean it's not really a big place to shoot movies. I don't know what the tax credits are there, but like I'd imagine not great. Well, that's why everything's shot in Canada and Georgia. Petsem stars Dale Midkiff as Lewis Creed. He did a ton of TV guest spots and a crow salvation in 2000. He was kind of a soap opera star, and people criticized him a lot for this performance.

It was kind of campy and kind of like very yeah, they're like, Oh, it's very soapy and like and like lame and stupid. I I disagree. I think I think he's just fine, but far superior to the man who plays Lewis Creed in the remake. That guy was like a zombie doing this. I mean, that that boy, that guy's pretty, but that's it. He's he's just he's just pretty, he's got he's got pretty blue eyes, and that's about it. He's cannot, yeah. I'm not a fan. Dale Midkiff, I would smash. I was watching, see that movie. I was like, who is this beef slab gross? This movie I was watching, and I was like, uh I saw so because I'm such a huge fan in 2019, they had a big 30th anniversary thing for uh at down in in New Jersey, um uh New Jersey Horror Con, I think it was, and they were all there, and my heart just he doesn't he look looks old now.

Of course he looks old, he's kind of little chubby with like glasses and stuff, but like I love him. I loved I think Dion McKeeffe is awesome in this movie, and everyone can fuck off. So okay it also stars Denise Crosby as Rachel Creed, his wife. Would also smash. Okay. Also quite a TV presence, including recurring roles in Star Trek Next Generation, Ray Donovan, suits, and a couple eps of The Walking Dead. That's interesting. I never watched The Walking Dead, but me neither. People are into it, I hear. Yeah, um, I hear so I hear. Uh also stars Fred Gwynn, yay, as Judd Crandall. He was Herman Munster on the Monsters and Fatal Attraction from 1987, and my cousin Vinny from 1982, and he passed away in 1993, and it's a travesty.

He's such a gem. Um luckily they did not put him in the pet cemetery. And as Ellie Creed, Blaze Berd Birdell, I think I I forget to print how to pronounce her last name, but and Bo Bird Berdal, Burdell as Ellie Creed too. Um they got them twins so they could get extra work out of them, of course, as Hollywood does. Mary Lambert said it was a r it was rare to find identical twins, but identical twins that could both act. Usually they had different talents, but she was able to use these two interchangeably. And then, of course, Miko Hughes as Gage Creed, yay, and the little boy, and Susan Blomart Blomer as Missy Dandridge, and Brad Greenquist as Victor Pascal, my favorite.

I love him. Oh, so from from terror to love. Listen, when I that that year, when I went to see them at the Monster or not Monster Mania, at uh New Jersey horror con up to him. I was like, You changed my life. Like you were my first thing I was ever scared of at horror, and I ended up loving you. And he's like, he was like so touched. He is a doll. He loves what he does, he loves being Victor Pascal. Like, I I love I love horror like B-less icons that like know that they're beeless icons and like embrace it. You know what I mean? Did you let him sign a boob? I let him sign not a boob, I let him sign a picture that I bought.

I bought his autograph. So he kind of I still have yeah, it's it's uh it's somewhere around here. I have it. I know. You still have the boob, you could have had him sign that. Well, I thought that would kind of fade after a while, so you know. I had a teacher in uh high school who who shook hands with um Vincent Price, and she said she didn't wash that hand for a month. Girl, imagine she would have coronavirus. She I I wouldn't either. I'd say, like, right, Rona. That's that's Mr. Price's hand now. Yeah, I'd have it amputated, put in a box. So if you're wondering what is pet cemetery about, because you've been living under a freaking rock, well, I'll let you know right now.

So the Creed family moves to a new town for uh Lewis's, the family patriarch's new job as a doctor at a local university. This house is conveniently close to the town's local pet cemetery, as we will soon find out, which gets some convo started between Lewis and his daughter Ellie about the mortality of their cat church and eventually people. Things get real real when a young man at the university dies in a car crash and warns Lewis not to break the barrier. Whatever that means. Uh, while Lewis's family is away for Thanksgiving, Church gets hit by a truck on the massive highway they live off of, and their friendly neighbor Judge shows Lewis an ancient American Indian burial ground where you can bury dead things to bring them back to life.

Judd warns that they don't always come back right, and indeed Church comes back a little bitch. Things then get really real real when Lewis's son Gage gets hit by a semi this time. The family is obviously distraught and plan to move out of town, but Lewis says he needs to hang back to wrap up some work business. That business is, of course, digging up his dead son and burying him in the pet cemetery. Judd is the first to feel undead Gage's wrath when he eats his throat out. And then Lewis's wife Rachel, who had scurried on home when Ellie warned her of a message from the dead college student, gets stabbed with a scalpel, and then I guess later hung from a noose.

Hanged from a noose, I should say. Tragic. Lewis responds by blowing up the house Gage is in, taking Rachel to the pet cemetery, and then letting her murder him when she rises. The end. What a happy ending. Honestly, I loved I probably my one of my favorite parts of the movie is then making out with that ushy gushy sm uh coming out of her face. Eyes coming out and bulging out. I love it, love it. I get it right now, and then she comes and she stabs him, and oh, I'm like, yeah, you bastard what you get for fucking this whole family up. Um well, surprisingly, Rotten Tomatoes seems to disagree with you, Julianne. The critics score 51%, the audience score a mere 59%.

You know what's you know what's sad is the remake, I'm pretty sure has a higher RT score than the original, and that is some coarse show. Don't even talk to me about that remake. The critics' consensus says, quote, pet cemetery is a bruising horror flick that wears its quirks on its sleeves to the detriment of its scare factor. Listen, it was 1989. Of course, the effects sucked, and of course, is it is it can't be, and does Pascal literally come into the bedroom and float and then like pull away on like a wheelie chair as he's like, come with me, doc. Like, yeah, it's a it's a freaking, it's it's crappy effects. Like, I get it, but like it's 1989, like whatever, like lay off this movie.

I'm very defensive about my pet cemetery. Well, you know, I don't think any of the effects for me were actually that bad, except, and I don't even know. I watched it like five times in a row because I was like, what just happened? When Lewis takes uh Gage to the Pet Cemetery and some like head just like out and screams at him and then goes away. What the hell was that? But like, yeah, I mean there's like little moments like that, like like even like in the pet cemetery, there's like this big like fog smoke, and it's like all dramatic, and it's like really like you know, whatever. It's it was 1989 layoff, guys. Yeah, and I think we discussed in the other one that you know, at this point in 2021, we are beyond villainizing uh native Indian burial grounds, we don't need it, yeah.

Um, but alas we're stuck with it here. Yeah, yeah. And there's kind of like I think I believe I've heard the book goes more into like the Wendigo and all that kind of stuff, like in more in more detail than this does. Um I I don't really think that the movie needs that. I think that the core, the core of the film, and I think this is which is why I love it so much, is it's just it's about a movie. It's about a family, it's about a movie. It's about a family that's trying to cope with not not just like death, but tragic death. And I think that's a whole other level of like grief that obviously like horror always explores, like tra like no one most people in horror films don't die like sick in old age, but like the tragic, like sudden, preventable deaths is that's like a whole other level of like hurt.

You know what I mean? Like Yeah, I'm sensing a um I'm sensing a um a little bit of a um uh what would you call it? A kink for you, Julianne, because you are uh uh resident hereditary lover. I love I love me some family horror. I really do. I I actually I would like to eventually write a book about like modern family horror. And just go into like from like the 80s to like the 2010s or something and like look at how different they're portrayed in each decade and what was going on in the context of the world, like and stuff. Get on it. You should start earlier than the 80s. Yeah, yeah. I could start the 70s too, Nom or something, and kind, but that would be a long book.

We we would need two volumes. But yeah, no, you gotta start in the 50s when the family is all good and cool. Yeah, that the McCarthy. Yeah, or yeah, I guess. Um, but yeah, I just think that it's this this movie, which is why Stephen King, like you said, had a hard time pitching it and selling it. Cause like it deals with not only child death, but talking to children about death. And like, like we said before, with think with was it orphan you're talking about? How like how kids are smart? Like we don't give kids enough credit for being as intelligent as they are. Are you kidding? Kids are idiots. Like, look at this guy and I'm gonna run out in the street.

I'm saying the daughter, you mean holy? I'm saying the daughter. The daughter, she's very she's I mean, yeah, Ellie's annoying, yes, but like she's curious, she's she's she's she's wants to know what death is, she wants to know what it means. She's asking questions, and like fucking Rachel is just like, oh, let's avoid it. Like, let's be scared and like let's not talk about it, and because she's traumatized from her sister, and then Dr. and Doc Creed is like, yo, like it is what it is. Like, you either believe in heaven or you don't, or you know, like people die in the wind, and that's it. Like, he's telling her the real real shit. And I I appreciate that about this movie.

You know, honestly, that part really did speak to me because I love that as a parent, he is not pushing any sort of doctrine on her. Like, I grew up very much with like a lineage of like this is what you believe, this is what you don't, right? And he gives her options, and he obviously has a little bit of a change of heart after seeing church risen from the grave, right? And um, you know, says, like, I do believe something is available after death. I assume at the beginning of the movie he would have been like, We're that candle, we're out. But um I thought that it was a very um insightful way that he explained that to her.

So then when Rachel was like around the corner being like, uh, I was like, okay. Um you know, of course, that we we find out what her deal is, and she's I mean, do you want to get into that now? Or the most dramatic monologue I've so obviously, so Rachel is telling him this story, and it's like narration over what I hear is uh Zelda. Would you say is the most iconic piece of this movie? That's that's what everyone gets away from this movie. Like I said, I didn't that I didn't even get to her the first time I watched it, so I probably would have been scared of her too, which she was also played by a man.

We we know that, right? Love that, yeah. Love that, yeah. Um, but but yeah, she's the kind of the big like when she's coming at that cameraman, like, yeah, it's still it's still kind of freaky, like which is so interesting to me because if I I mean obviously I am an adult, I'm not a child watching this, but if I I feel like no matter when I would have watched this, Zelda is not the thing I would have taken away. It's kind of like it's kind of like Silence of the Lambs as an adult. I watch it and I'm scared of Hannibal Lecter, but everybody talks about Buffalo Bill. Right, right. Um, and so which I love Hannibal Lecter.

Don't even get me started on that, Zatty. Um so, but the thing is, is that there are a few times in this movie where it's like the visuals of Zelda and Rachel, cool, yeah, but her narration on top of this, as she's like screaming and weeping, hilarious. I know. I was like, calm down, let me hear the story. But okay, do we think that it was Mary Lambert's direction? Because all the performances are, let's be honest, a little over the top. I mean, I I love it, but they're a little over the top. I mean, are the wishes at her kind of being like, let's bring this out and let's make you like this? Like, I'd be curious to know.

It's bizarre because, like I said, I was watching this um documentary, and so many of the uh interviews talked about how they wanted to make this movie because it wasn't like other horror movies, you know, it was it was empathetic and it had a real psychological weight, and they did a lot of bashing on on slasher movies for that. I was like, okay, it doesn't have to be one or the other. There were so many slashers in the 80s that it was kind of like, oh, this one movie that's on a slasher, like that's cool, you know, kind of thing. Yeah. Yeah, but like, come on, we don't have to pit women against women, we don't have to pick horror against horror.

I agree, I agree. But what I think is interesting is that they spend so much time talking about this in their interviews, but I do feel a strong sense that they were trying to make the movie as like as sensational as possible because you're right. I think that some of the emotional moments are a little bit robbed by how crazy that when Gage dies and is hit by that semi and like that little bloody shoe rolls out into the street. I like had a brief moment where like maybe a little tear could have started to trickle, but then Lou is screaming on the street with the flashes of those stupid photos of him just like holding Gage like I hold my cat when I'm trying to show people how long he is.

I was like, what the hell? It's not that that I thought that emotional. I mean, I it is ridiculous, but like when he goes, no, it's like I my heart breaks. You're it could have been, but they just took those effects too far. No, it really what kills me is when is when Gage looks up and he's like, uh-oh, that kills me. That makes me laugh. That kid's horrible, but like he's like, uh-oh. And then somebody just hits him. Like, I'm like, that's that would that had to be like a little bit can't be, like a little bit contrived on their part. But I but I still I would still argue though, this this movie still hits the emotional beats for me, at least.

I know not everyone agrees with that, but I think this for me, especially like kids dying is is one thing, but like when pets die, girl, like I've like I've suffered traumatic, like I I've had a lot of pets, not not a lot, but I've had a few die tragically, like in like really horrific ways. And like I so like I think like when church dies, like I'm just like, even though you don't see it, you see like the body, and he comes back. I mean, like, you know, that's cool. But like I think after but like I think that's what hits that's what really kind of bothers me too. It's like the kids and pets like just don't like I like I like I suggest this movie to you because I thought it'd be kind of therapeutic because I lost both my cats, you know, in the last few months, and I was like, oh maybe it'll kind of help me like kind of it just like recognized that like it could be so much worse.

Like, you know what I mean? Like like they like my my babies, like they died of old age and just like getting sickness, but like when you see when you see this movie, it's like you think about how good, like how good you have it, and then what just like that can be taken away. And that's really that really scares me. I think that that's what like really bothers me about this movie. Yeah, definitely. I mean, I had cats when I was a kid that had uh were sick, and like one of my most traumatic memories is my mom wanted us to be there when they put my first cat down, and like I was holding the cat, and I like mistake on my mom's part because I had dreams like I was up at night thinking about my cat dying when I was there.

I mean, not that I mean I think I was in my like preteens, like 12, 13. Okay, and so it was it was horrid. So, like, yeah, like pets dying can be really uh, you know, emo obviously I don't know what it's like to have a child because I don't. Um, but I mean like that's as close as I can get to it. So I mean this movie is interesting because you know, those are the two things that we hold dearest, you know, our pets and our children. Yeah. And um obviously Lewis, not into not into cats. He's not very nice to the cat. Is he really into anything? Let's I mean, he's just he he okay, listen, I like I have empathy for Lewis.

I like him, I think he means well, but my god damn, does he fuck up every chance that he fucking gets? And it drives me, he's like that typical, serotypical like dad that's just like well, and I'll do this, and then it's like mistake after mistake after mistake, and it's like it all unravels. Like he's responsible for all of them dying, except for Ellie. Like, that's all you do. Like, you you were responsible for all that. He couldn't grab gage, he you know that then gauge Well, that wasn't his fault, you animal. He tripped, and even if he had gotten there, he would have gotten hit with gage. That was not his fault to get back.

I mean, okay. I okay, fine, but it was his fault bringing him back, and then his wife dies over it because he can't stand that, you know. I and listen, that's that's the greater issue here is like what how much grief can control you and how far you'll go to see your loved ones again. And that I mean, I get it. Like, I I I really I think any, I think anyone if if you and I had had a child, a toddler, a little, a little boy or a little girl, and we lost them horrifically, and someone said, Hey, well, you can bury them in the pet cemetery and like maybe they'll come back. I mean, of course you're gonna try because even though you know it's a horrible idea because you just want to see them again.

So, like, I I get that. Um well, first of all, no offense to people with offspring, but I wouldn't be caught dead with a child. This is hypothetical. God damn. Well, I think it's an interesting point that you bring up because you know, Stephen King, a man, so obviously he's writing from experience as a father and a husband. Um, but it's interesting to me that Lewis plays in so strongly to this idea of like a father as a provider and a protector, and that he's going to the extreme. Like, I have to protect my family by protecting them emotionally and bringing this child back, which I do think it's selfish as well. I don't think he's doing it totally for his wife.

Um, but I thought that was really interesting that like he is playing his role of the father, as the father, um, so um extremely, and even, you know, we were talking about slashers earlier, like slashers, people die. Uh, well, some people believe or think that people die in slashers as punishment for things. And really, it's interesting here that everybody dies as punishment for what Lewis is doing, like you were saying. Yeah, yeah. And and again, I think the difference here, and maybe because Stephen King wrote it, like you know, um Creed is like a an alter ego of himself. He wrote it from like, you know, his perspective of like what Stephen King went through himself.

But like I think like he's not the doofy dad. He's not you know, like that movie chirp where it's like, oh, like an or again, like an orphan, like we hated that dad, even though like he's a nice guy in that movie. No, he's well, I mean some sometimes he is, but like he's like, oh no, she's fine, you know, she's fine with me. And it's like he's like he's not that kind of level of doofy dad. He's just he's so he just makes stupid decisions because he's so hurt. He he's like hurting so much that he makes dumb this and like people can I can relate to like you I get that I get that as a parent, just and from my experience, I can speak to um when you're hot, you don't have to be smart.

That's that's the way the world works, yeah. Um, yeah. Uh now how do you feel how do you feel about Ellie in this movie? Um, you know, like she's she's so she's important, but yet she's like not. Like she's not well that's what I was about to say is I feel like not to compare every piece of this to the remake, that's just my reference point. Yeah. Um, I feel like Ellie actually is more of an integral part to the newer remake. Um and that in this older one, Ellie is kind of a uh a device to make us understand Lewis better and understand like his role and empathy as a father better, and even in the parts where he's explaining death to her, like, I don't know, we're we're getting to understand Lewis better through Ellie.

And actually, and I won't spoil the ending to the remake in case you haven't seen it, because it is different than the new or the old one. Do you mind if we do? And we can give a spoiler warning, but I think we if we I think we kind of should though, because I feel like Julianne wants to spoil. I you can skip ahead if you if like 30 seconds, but like no, the the roles are flipped in the in like and the people were really upset about it. Like if you I don't I mean this ending, I was gonna talk about the uh the real ending. Yeah, well, yeah, um, but like you know, she like people were like, oh that's that's a cool idea, like making her because she's she's the one who's so obsessed with death, and like she's older and it's a little scarier.

Like and I perceive Lewis and Ellie's relationship as closer than Lewis and Gage's. And maybe that's just because she's older, but like I really feel like they have a real like daddy's girl relationship. Uh, and they are so I I feel like intertwined throughout the story. So I do think that it's more emotionally resonant to have Ellie die. Whereas when Gage dies, it's sad because it's sad to have a child die. But you know, I feel like as an audience, we're not really let in that much on Gage and Lewis's relationship. I mean, he's a baby, so we don't he doesn't have that much going on. He doesn't have much of an identity, yeah. I will say though, the scenes, I mean, when he dies, we talked about that, which apparently affects me more than it affects you, you monster.

But no, it was the movie that took me out of that. But but no, I think even the the funeral scene, I think that that is a really underrated scene. I think that is, oh my god, that that kills me. Like they're all they're all so emotional, they're all they're angry and pissed at each other. Now, we don't we didn't mention this, but like Rachel's parents hate Creed. They they hate him, they hate, they think he's a horrible dad and they have they have some shit against him. So they're arguing, they're yelling at him, the father's yelling at him, the freaking the coffin falls to the floor and busts open, and you see his little body, and like that, like I just I cannot.

And it's like, and his and Gage's friends, or not Gage's friend, um, Lewis's friends, like, yo, it's your son's funeral, like you gotta get together. You can't be doing this. Like, your your son is literally on the floor in a coffin, like you can't get it together. And like, it's just that I find it so heartbreaking. Like, I feel like because that that's what would happen. Like, everyone's so when a child dies, people are people are going crazy. Like, it's like you like lose your mind. Like, and I I just I don't know, I love that scene. Apparently, you well, no, no, no, no. I thought it was a good scene, but you are reading it is so emotional, and I was like, Jesus Christ, toxic masculinity out the ass here.

Can these two men not just handle themselves for two seconds? I mean, yeah, but that's but no, but then his like you said, Lewis's friend is like, hey, get it together. I'm like, the dad started it, get out of town. If anything, people should be sad for Lewis and like, hey, grandpa, like, get a hint, get a clue. Yeah, oh yeah. But um so yeah, I I didn't know, but what I was going to say about the remake, which again, if you're not interested in spoilers, like you can jump ahead a couple minutes. But that movie ends. I think that both of these movies have interesting pieces to their endings, they end similarly, but the the new remake ends where you know Rachel and Ellie came back.

Or wait, no, Rachel and Gage came back because obviously Ellie's the one that dies. And um, and it's interesting that all the same things happen where Ellie's brought back, and then um Lewis takes Rachel to the pet cemetery, and then Lewis gets brought back as well, and the remake ends with Gage in the car seat in the car with the zombie family walking towards him in the car. I think that that's a really interesting ending, and probably one of the only redeeming things about that movie is how sinister and kind of dark that is. And the new one, or in the old one in the 1989 movie, which we are discussing right now. Um I think that it has a similar effect, but at the same time, since it's not wrapped up as much in a bow, I'm kind of like, well, what happened to Ellie?

Like now she's just stuck with her grandparents and they seem like shitty people. And um I do love I love uh Lewis and Rachel making out when she's all zombiefied. I love that. That's gorgeous. But um and so I do I think there are pros and cons because I don't think that they could have pulled that scene off in the new one without making it the last, like that had to be the last scene. Yeah, so yeah, I'm pretty conflicted about which of the endings I like better because I think that thematically I like the newer one better, but visually I like the older one better. Gotcha. Now, how we didn't even get into Judd. What are your thoughts on?

I mean, you don't you don't have any thoughts on Judd? Judd, he's iconic. I know he's iconic, and I know that he's kind of the best character in this movie. Yeah, but I just like don't I don't know, I'm kind of like you just came in here, you screwed up their whole lives, and then you died. And he's just listen, he's just he's just telling him because he wants to help. He's like a big goofball. You know, Lewis Cree doesn't have to listen to him, but he does. And he goes and you know, I'm just just saying. I mean, I think it's interesting that Judd is like the sage character, he's so wise and he knows everything.

Um and he's he's like a father to Lewis. Um, but it's interesting that he's flawed and that he did make the mistake of telling Lewis about this thing that Judd knows perfectly well he should not be telling him about because it's a bad and tempting thing. But um I don't know, like something about Jud doesn't connect to me. Really? Okay. Well, I mean, everyone's flawed, every everyone has flaws, and Judd's, you know, he's trying to help, but he he fucks up and his death infinitely better in the old one. And he everybody talks about this Achilles thing, which like, yeah, that sucks. Why did nobody tell me about him getting his mouth slashed open and his throat eaten out?

I was like, I saw the Achilles thing, and that had been so hyped up for me that I was like, oh yeah, that was pretty good. And then remake, it absolutely blows in the remake. Like, I'm sorry, but no. Well, yeah, but then immediately after I was like, okay, Achilles, whatever. And then I was like, What? Why is nobody hyping up this mouth slit? That was gross. A little shithead, yeah. I love how you asked me earlier if I came out with a blue velvet top hat. Well, that is another moment where I was like into this movie, and then I was like, what? But he he's wearing Zelda's dress. That is a dot I did not connect.

But also a top hat. The scene, well, yeah, and the cage. Like, is there is there any shred of sense to that? Is that what children wore in the 80s? Isn't it? Wait, I I thought oh god, I thought it was a connection to a painting in the movie. See, I I I'm not gonna lie, when I was watching it last night again, I was kind of doing another thing too, so I was kind of like half paying attention to it. Oh my god, you suck. I know, I know. Please forgive me, you guys. But no, I think wasn't there a painting uh the parents had a painting in their house that kind of something was where I I think that's maybe I'm making this up.

I could have sworn there was like a parent, there's a there's a painting in Rachel's parents' house where it's like in their old house where it's like the the person's wearing that and it kind of like morphed into like Zelda and the outfit that that painting is wearing, and he gauges like a little top hat and cane. You you've seen it once, don't even don't even try me. Don't give me that look. If that is true, what was what were the filmmakers thinking? That is the most convoluted thing. Maybe I'm making it up, but I I I could have sworn it was like something it connects to something. I I forget. I don't know. I I gotta rewatch it now again because I gotta pay more attention.

But uh I've seen this movie a million damn times, and I and I I I don't know why it starts to kind of get like ridiculous at a certain point where you're just like, okay, like like Rachel, like Rachel comes home and Pascal's trying to tell her to like no, like you know, you know, don't don't do it, don't go in there, and then it's like it just kind of gets crazy from that point on, and I'm like, what is going on? I have written in my notes, I have like a whole stream of consciousness, like, oh, this is happening, this is happening. Oh my god, now he's killing this person, he's killing this person, and then it all stops with what the hell is gauge wearing?

So I can't. I love it. Um well I also think so. Something I thought that was masterful in this movie, the cutting back and forth between Rachel trying to get back home and Lewis taking Gage to the cemetery. I thought that obviously when you think about it, like those timelines in no in no realm of reality could actually be lining up. But I was like really like edge of my seat, like, oh my god, oh my god, she can make it, you can make it, you can do it. I thought that was really uh really nice. I really loved the suspense that that belt built. And then there was one other thing that I thought was really incredible in this movie.

Um were you were you before you get into that, were you surprised that Rachel dies? Or someone who's never seen it before, were you actually shocked by that or you kind of saw coming? Like it's tough because I uh have seen the remake. Um yeah. I think it's it's vicious, it's like much more uh more difficult than I would think. The movie I feel like is never particularly savage, and then in the last like 15 or 20 minutes, it's like, oh my god. So I do think that it is. I think Rachel dying is kind of the the nail in the coffin of like, all right, we're going, you know? I mean, because obviously Gage dying is sad, but like it's it's so that's so integral to the plot, but then Rachel dying is kind of just like a cherry on top, like, all right, she did.

Right, right. Kind of like a bow at the like a little tiny bow that finalize everything. Um, you know what? She's not a significant character, but I still find her death tragic. Um, Missy in the beginning, I find her suicide to be kind of jarring. Um, and I that's what I mean. Like all like all these deaths are so preventable. And I think that's what makes the movie so like so effective in that way. It's like haunting because everything's just like, oh no, like what are you doing? It's like everything's like, God, you were so close, and like life just comes like a semi railing down the street and just like with her, like she probably had stomach cancer.

And instead of letting Lewis look at her and treat her, she just kills herself. And like that, just I don't know. Like that, like I've that scene kind of as I've gotten older, it bothers me a little bit more. I'm not gonna lie, when she died, I thought, now who's that? Yeah, yeah. She's not like a significant character, but like it's just and watching her death was still a little bit like you know what I mean? Yeah. I'm seeing my notes a little gay allegory here that I had forgotten I had written. You know that scene when um is his name Tommy? Whoever the guy is that Jad is like, hey, here's what happened when this happened before.

Oh, um, I forget his name, but yeah, yeah, yeah. From from the past. Yeah, it was interesting to me because they call him an ab an abomination. And then this big um, this like mob goes to kill him, and they keep saying it it ain't natural, which I'm from Texas. You'd think I'd be able to say ain't a little bit better. Um, and I was watching, I was like, oh my god, think of all the sweet, innocent LGBT people who have died this way. And um that's it, that's all my thought was. No, yeah, that's that's a that's actually an interesting idea. Yeah, um, yeah, I forget. Do they explicitly say they don't say anything? They just say, Oh, it ain't natural.

Like that's is that I I forget. Yeah, I mean, he wasn't well, maybe he was, he didn't come out to me, but I don't think he was actually gay. Um you just thought that maybe that could be yeah, the language was just kind of loaded in that one scene. I was like, interesting, I'm seeing allegory. Um, but what I was actually wanting to talk about, and then I got distracted by that note. I sent you a video clip from what I was watching. There's a scene where after Rachel dies, Lewis is tossing and turning in bed. He falls out of the bed, his head slams into the bedside table, ricochets off of it, and then he acts like it didn't happen.

He's a doctor, he's a tough guy. I mean, what can I say? He he's he's listening he's seen a lot of shit, he's experienced a lot of shit. Like that ain't that ain't nothing. Like I rewound this 20 times because I thought it was so funny. He sent me the video, and I was like, is he sending me it because of his crotch? You can see his crotch. He's sending me this. No, did you not see he falls out of bed and his head is like slam, slam? And then I was like, Well, I was like, is this an act? Like, did they not mean for that to happen in shooting or something? Because he just gets up and he's like, Oh my god, Rachel or Gage or whatever.

And he like runs away. And I was like, Does he not realize that he just slammed his head? Concussion, yeah, yeah. I mean pull up, pull up our text and watch that clip. Look at it, watch his head in this clip. It is like watching, I love watching fail videos on YouTube. It is like watching that, and it is such it's it's very physical comedy, which is um I don't know, was that kind of a thing in the 80s? I mean, I guess I I sort of, but sometimes, but like not really. But does that look intentional to you? I was like, it hurt, that's for damn sure. Oh man, that really tickled me. Do you have anything else to say about Pet Cemetery?

I'm actually curious from you. I mean, because I from how much Pascal affected me, but like, did his like did he were you afraid of him? Did you like were you afraid of his kind of like like that like the scene, which I think is a great scene, when stop it, it's not destructive. You're on one today. Um like when he gets transferred into the hospital and he gets sent to to Doc and Doc puts his eyelids down thinking he's all dead and that's it, and then it's like boom, he pops open. Like that that bothers that used that that used to bother me too when I was a kid. Like that's just kind of like that sudden, like the grown stonier and that that kind of like because you don't you don't know what his intentions are in the beginning.

You know what I mean? Yeah, I think he's an I think he's an interesting twist of um expectation, right? But I also um I don't know, I didn't find him particularly well utilized because I thought it was interesting that this happened at the beginning, it's kind of a defining um moment for Lewis. He's like the friendly ghost, basically, to try to deter them from doing bad things, but yeah, but then even his death is defining for Lewis throughout the movie. Like this kind of sets him on to this trauma. Um, but then it's like they forget about him, and then by the end, you know, Rachel makes that connection with Ellie that she's having these premonitions, and she's like, Oh, Pascal.

And I was kind of like, Who? Like, I don't know. I feel like for him to be as effective as they want him to be, I would have liked for him to be woven throughout a little bit more because then he's so integral to like the last 15, 10, 15 minutes of the movie. Uh, I found it a little bit bizarre. Yeah. I and I it's even worse in the remake. Like that, like I totally forgot about Pascal and that like that. He was so they they just ruined his well, and I don't recall him being nearly as important to the end of the movie. No, he's not important at all, and like he might as well just not even been in the movie.

And that and I oh I I love this character. Like, I mean, like as I said, he was like my first, like, oh my god, I'm terrified of him, and now like I now that when you get older you realize that he's like the fr he's like a he's like Casper, he's like the friendly ghost, he's a great character, but like oh my god, they like they don't use him, you know, they don't utilize him at all in the remake. Like that that always that bugged me so much when I saw it, but but yeah, I I I I um I appreciate him though. He it's a little bit of this nostalgia thing for me. I I recognize that, but I I I appreciate his his presence in the movie, I think it adds to it.

No, he's interesting. My the first character I was ever had nightmares about was Gollum from The Lord of the Rings. He's goofy, he was terrified. There's a scene where he's crawling down the cliff towards Frodo. I dreamed about that. How old were you when you saw that? I mean, those movies came out between like what 2000 and 2005. Little baby, yeah. I was I was uh I turned 10 in 2005, so like I was younger than 10. Yeah, I was five. Yeah, I was five when I saw that shit. I was five when I saw Pet Sim. And the man who played Gage was two when he played Gage. That's pretty incredible. Yeah, we're not, yeah, I don't think we're far off in uh age.

Yeah, I think he's pretty he's pretty good for. I mean, I know they had to overdub some things that he says, but I think he's pretty damn good for a little little little tot. Like, don't you think? Like, yeah, and when he's got that cane, he looks like a full-grown Victorian grandpa. Like it's you cannot get over this cane and top address. A child and a cane and top nonsense. If you were if you were shorter, you could be that for Halloween. That would that would make me laugh. Well, I am six foot and he was probably like two feet. I'll be Pascal. Uh yeah, I truly can find no justification in my brain for why that happened.

I'm gonna have to get Mary Lambert on the phone. I mean, we we could bonus episode talk to Mary Lambert. Um, Julianne, well, what I'm really curious about is we have a few interesting entries into the murder bank. And what would you say is the most memorable? I mean, it's cliche, but I gotta go with Gage. I mean, that's you can't get more iconic than Gage getting hit by a semi and the little freaking foot getting thrown in the air and the the wailing of the dad, and uh it just you know, freaking the Ramones playing in the background. It's just it's it's perfect. I love it. I don't I don't I didn't you can suck it if you think it's too too campy, whatever.

Well, suck it I will indeed, because I'm not going to choose Gage. Okay, I'm going to choose Jud. I thought, again, maybe it's just uh, I mean, again, we are all victim of the circumstance to which we see things. One of the reasons I love Evil Dead 2013 so much is because the theater was incredibly raucous when I saw it. It was so much fun. Um, and I had just had the um image of Judd's Achilles being slashed, told to me so many times that then his face and throat being carnaged as well was so shocking to me because I thought the Achilles was what we were gonna get. Yeah, and so I thought that was incredible.

And I don't I don't disagree, yeah. And that child's mouth on his throat, both disturbing and erotic. No, it was gross, but it was incredible, it is incredible. What would you say on a scary scale, one to five, where would you place Pet Cemetery? Okay, listen, this is a nostalgia thing, but I think, and I I I know that, but I think there are genuinely scary. I I'm gonna give it a solid three three five. I think there are genuinely some scary images, like there are things that like pat like Pascal and Zelda, like there are moments that are actually genuine scary. The movie as a whole kind of totally kind of goes all over the place, but I think there's some good scares in it.

So I'm going three five. I know that's high, but that's what I think. Interesting. You know, I still just don't understand why why Zelda has taken the culture the way she has. I think a lot of people, in the way Pascal was so formative to me, a lot of people saw this as as kids and thought Zelda was like the ultimate, like, holy shit. That's like as a child, you know what I mean? So I think that it's it's a nostalgia thing on that part too. People like our age, like you know, in like 30s and so like that's that's like, oh my god, Zelda was like the definitive scary bitch. Um yeah, yeah. I mean her back gross.

Um the way she speeds at that camera when she like at the second the second time they show her, and she's like, and like that, like that's that's unnerving. Like she thought like people shouldn't move that way, like you know, yeah. Oh stop, you're seeing this at as an adult, like we y'all we saw it, the real ones saw it as a kid, and we're like, yo, this is this is scary. Adult, I'm basically Gage's age right now. I'm so young. Pretty much. Um, I'm gonna say I'll give it a two. I thought I was a two and a half, I'll say, because I was genuinely surprised. Even Julianne had texted me beforehand, which don't try to guide my expectations, rude.

But you had said something like, like along the lines of what you've been saying in the episode, like, oh, this movie is very nostalgic for me. Like, you're probably gonna think it's silly. I thought it was great. I honestly, after I after I thought the um the remake was such utter garbage, I did find this movie uh more unnerving than I thought it would I would. And I found it just more entertaining and more interesting as a piece of filmmaking than I thought it would. So whether it is a smash or a slash, for me personally, smash. I thought it was great. I I truly maybe I really did need that reference point of the new one to think this, but like I was dreading watching this, and when you suggested it, I was like, oh Jesus Christ, I guess.

And I really stop it. No, I genuinely enjoyed it. So what would you say, smash or slash? I mean, you know it's a smash. Um, no, yeah, I'm I'm glad to hear that because I think like and and Parker I said this before in the podcast, but the reason why he hasn't seen some something like Pet Cemetery, which most of us have seen, because he didn't, you didn't you weren't allowed to see a lot of horror films growing up. So like I think like for most of us, if we were like this was like a formative thing, but for you, you know, you're seeing that as an adult for the first time. I was wasn't sure how you're gonna kind of connect to it.

But I think it I like I said, I think to this day it's still it's still effective, it's still haunting. I think if we ever have children, which you will probably not like, but like I think it'll affect you in different ways then too, you know. So it's just I think it's I think it's it's time, even though it's a time capsule, the 80s, it's still timeless. Ugh, listen, I don't know. I do hate children. I do. They're the worst. Uh, I always say I would consider, I don't hate them so much that I would I I would not end relationship because somebody I was with wanted a child. I would say I would no, I would consider it.

I would I would enjoy dressing up a child, you know. Like in a little blue velvet outfit with a king in a top hat. You better believe if I'm gonna have a child, that's all they're good for. So it's not that I hate children, it's just that I'd be like, oh, look at that busy street. Maybe you should go play out there. Stop it. Maybe you should, maybe I'll get you a kite and then you could go chase it because you're the worst. Uh oh. Julianne, since you're not with us every single episode, your favorite scary movie has been proclaimed previously on this podcast as Rosemary's BB. And I love on HBO the Allen versus Pharaoh documentary that's been happening.

I have a newfound respect for Mia Pharaoh. Not that I didn't respect her before, I just didn't know her. Um that's beside the point. But I would love to know Rosemary's Baby and Pet Cemetery exist side by side. One has to never be made. Only one can this is Harry Potter. Only one can live. Wait, no, neither can live while the other survives. How dare you? You have to pick one. Oh wow. It's like I don't even know you anymore. You may need to. It's like, it's like, what's that movie? Sophie's choice. Oh. Listen, they're both very significant to me. This one, Pet Sam was formative as a child. I probably would not have even been into horror as a kid if I had not seen it.

But Rosemary, Rosemary changed the world. So I I gotta go with Pet Sem because I I think I think I would have eventually got into horror. Yeah, you know what? I'll get rid of Pet Sam, even though it I hate to say those words, because I I still would have gotten into horror because I I my mom showed me Halloween at like eight years old. So that's I that I loved it too. So I still would have gotten into horror, but this was so oh my god, that's so I you can't believe you bastard asked me that stupid question. God wow, now I dare you brought Halloween into this, and I'll spare you having to choose that.

No, no, don't you dare. Yes, yes. How so? How so? 1960, that there's still there is still to this day not a movie, and it's but it's it's 50 years old, 53 years old almost, that it deals with that many issues from a woman's perspective. There there are movies out there that try. I mean, we all saw lucky, you know. She tried, but there, but nothing compares to that movie, nothing describes what a what a what a woman's experience is like better than that movie, and not in an overheavy-handed way, just in a like, here, here's here's some real shit. Interesting. That is not what I expected you to say, and it was beautifully articulated. Thank you.

Um, all right. Well, my favorite scary movie, I believe, is still Black Swan. Um, yeah. Yeah, I can't remember. Well, what's my favorite scary movie, Black Swan? Give me some freaking Sophie's choice shit. I mean, if it were up to Black Swan versus Pet Cemetery, it's no contest. What are you talking about? Black Swan's a masterpiece. Uh, so next time on what's your favorite scary movie? It's just gonna be me, Parker, but perhaps not. It will be me reviewing the brand spankin' new horror movie The Toll, which you can check out Friday, March 26th on VOD. And I might just be joined by the Toll's writer and director. Whoa. So join me next week when me and Michael Nader get down to the nitty-gritty of the toll.

Uh, and until then, you can head on over to Apple Podcasts and leave us a rating and a review that would be oh so so helpful to spreading the scary word of what's your favorite scary movie. Uh, Julianne, you are an absolute goddess, and I am in awe of your glory. If everybody else wants to find you, let me know how they can. You know what it is. It's at the jewel marie on Instagram and on Twitter, me being snarky on Twitter and me being just wonderful on Instagram as always. Couldn't get that out with a straight face and gorgeous. Don't forget that. Thank you. She posted a very gorgeous photo. Where can we find you, sir?

Oh, well, not that anybody would want to, but you can find me, Parker, on Instagram, Twitter, and Letterboxd at Parker Del Rey. Uh, you can find what's your favorite scary movie on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter. It's ScarymoviePod for all the juicy deets of what's coming up on the podcast. Uh, you can find us on Patreon for even more exclusive content. We're about to discuss the Strangers Pray at Night, which is one of my absolute favorites, uh, at patreon.com slash scary moviepod. And you can find our website at scary moviepod.com and send us any thoughts you have at scary moviepod at gmail.com. Thank you, and good night. No fair, no fair baby voices disgust me. Say goodbye.