The Shining

An elevator spilling blood. And run! All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy. Danny's not here, Mrs. Torrance. Danny's tricycle ride through the overlook halls. Jack's face squeezing through the hole in the bathroom door. Room 237. The woman in the tub. The Grady Girls lying in pools of blood. Come play with us, Danny. Wendy screaming with the kitchen knife. Here's Johnny. Jack chasing Danny through the hedge maze. Jack's frozen body. Pop culture has become so saturated with these quotes and visuals. Even those who haven't seen Kubrick's classic film The Shining know it well. Hello, Sydney. It's your killer host! My name is Parker, your resident horror fanatic. I'm Caroline, Scaredy Scream Queen. I'm Ian, Scary Movie Skeptic.

And welcome to. What's your favorite scary movie is a horror film podcast where we're on a journey to find our favorite scary movie one at a time. Whether you hate them or love them, join us and discover yours. Spoilers ahead, so plan your movie screening every weekend before the episode release. All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy. Baby. I am shocked. Flabbergasted. Flabbergasted that you guys have not seen the 1980 film The Shining. When we said we were horror virgins, like it was real. Untouched by the horror tentacles. Ooh. Um loves a good tentacle. Yeah, Calling, take notes. Um The Shining was directed and co-written by Stanley Kubrick. Kubrick. I have discovered that I've never said his name out loud, and I don't know if it's Kubrick or Kubrick.

I'm gonna start saying Kubrick for the rest of this episode. If it's wrong, too bad. It's like a mix between Rubik's and Cube. Kubrick. Kubrick's right, right? Kubrick, Kubrick. The master of the Kubrick's groom. So directed by Stanley Kubrick, who also directed 2001 A Space Odyssey from 1968, A Clockwork Orange from 1971, and Eyes Wide Shut by 1990 from 1999, starring my bae Nicole Kidman. He has been nominated for 12 Academy Awards and won one for Best FX for 2001, a Space Odyssey. A quick quote from Kubrick on the Shining that I just thought was interesting to kick us off. He said, quote, there's something inherently wrong with the human personality. There's an evil side to it.

One of the things that horror stories can do is to show us the archetypes of the unconscious. We can see the dark side without having to confront it directly. I thought that was nice and spooky. It was also co-written, but mainly written by novelist Diane Johnson. He had uh talked to Diane Johnson about directing a previous novel that she'd written, but it had fallen through. And when he chose The Shining to adapt to film, he wanted nothing to do with Stephen King for the most part. More on that later. Uh, and he called up Diane Johnson to help him kind of uh create the product that he wanted to make. It also features the iconic score composed by Wendy Carlos and Rachel Elkind.

And of course, is based on the novel by Stephen King. This movie stars Jack Nicholson as Jack Torrance, and I won't give away my thoughts early, but Stellar. That was that was him? Yes. Stellar performance. For some reason I didn't recognize him. Um It was the spirit of evil. Yeah, he really took on a new role. Um he's been nominated for nine Academy Awards, has won three for acting in One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest in 1975, Terms of Endearment in 1983, and As Good as It Gets in 1997. Shelley Duval plays the role of Wendy. My personal favorite. So we're gonna take some sides here. We'll get to that. Shelley Duval was in Annie Hall in 1977 and Popeye in 1980.

Same year, very different role. More on that later. Danny Lloyd plays the role of Danny. Um I had a thought during the movie, actually, about his performance, and I was like, what has this kid been in otherwise? He's incredible. Yeah. Nothing. I had the same thought. Literally nothing. He was probably scarred from this movie. The one minute wonder. The chops on that kid. Probably living off the royalties. Yeah, truly. He's making money. I know I was calculating it and it was like, how old is he now? And he's still probably getting money. Yeah. Anyways. Well, Danny Lloyd, any relation? Nope. Um Although Caroline does the same finger puppet. Oh. Get your mind out of the gutter.

Scatman Cruthers, awesome name, plays the role of Halloran, another awesome name. He was also in one flew over the cuckoo's nest from 1975, and a lot of other voiceover work, including the Scat Cat and Aristacats from 1970. Which, like I have to go back and watch that now. Everybody. Yeah. Everybody. Have you seen the new Everybody wants to be a cat? Have you seen the video of the Lizzo song with the Aristacat? Yeah. So cute. Is it Lizzo or Lizo? Lizzo. Lizzo, my god, Lizo. The IMDB summary is quote: a family heads to an isolated hotel for the winter where a sinister presence influences the father into violence, while his psychic son sees horrific forebodings from both past and future.

I must say, I don't think I read that when I put this in these notes, and I think it's horrendous. The critics' consensus is quote Though it deviates from Stephen King's novel, Stanley Kubrick's The Shining is a chilling, often baroque journey into madness, exemplified by an unforgettable turn from Jack Nicholson. After this movie was released, very mixed to negative reviews of it, saying that it was not uh faithful enough to Stephen King's work. And uh over time it has like less than 10 years later, I think there was a Rolling Stone article published that was like re-evaluating The Shining, and just with time it has become more and more like a classic and a staple of pop culture.

You probably recognize a ton of imagery from this movie, like the twins and the elevator and Jack Nicholson's face in that door, even the music, like there's so many elements of this movie that I don't know, even growing up, I I've seen this movie quite a few times, but even before I saw it, I knew what some of these things were. What was the plot difference? Oh, everything. There's so much difference between I've read the novel. I read it when I was younger, so I don't quite remember it necessarily, but like re- I've read some summaries preparing for this episode. But basically, when Stanley Kubrick chose The Shining, he chose the story and kind of the atmosphere and mood of it, and just kind of threw the rest out.

So they're the same characters, there's the same basic premise, but there's so much deviation in character and arc, and um, like some examples are like Wendy is a lot stronger in Stephen King's novel, and there's not a hedgemace. Not hard to be. Not hard to beat, yeah. There's a hedge maze uh in the movie, but in the book, there are just these big like uh topiary animals that come to life and chase them around. And that'd be cool. All of the uh like guests at the party, there's a lot of backstory to the what's going on in the hotel and who those people are. There's a lot of backstory with uh Wendy and Jack's parents and kind of the lineage of what's led them to become who they are, and also Jack passing some of those things on to Danny.

So there's just a bunch that s uh Kubrick just kind of sliced out to make this more like atmospheric psychological piece. Like for the better, though, because I could see where like trying to fit all of that in would have I feel like after like afterwards, right now when we're talking about it, I would have been like, why did they include all that backstory in the beginning? Yeah, and there's actually a mini-series from 1997 by McGarris, um, that tried to stay really faithful to it and in response to all these criticisms of the movie, and I haven't seen it personally, but everything I've read for the most part says that it's kind of unsuccessful just because I don't know.

I don't know. I'm kinda in the other boat. I think one of the parts of the movies that or the movie missed for me was I feel like some of that backstory, having now known that it's deviated from the book so much on that, like I could see where that would be beneficial because like for example, I feel like I did get confused with the like the guests, the relation of the the guy that was the former hotel Grady. Yeah, like I I felt a little discon like disjointed when maybe a little more context would have been good. Yeah, the th the guests and like the bartender and like some of the other people that show up towards the end, I'm like, what's going on here?

But I think like family lineage, maybe like we're good. Yeah, I think it's interesting too because I do think some of that was intentional though by Kubrick, because I've also seen a lot of it's just so bizarre because reading about the production of this movie, they it took them like over a year to make, and he was really anal about everything that he did. And it's bizarre because there's so many weird visual things. Like uh if you look, if you pay attention to the layout of the hotel, like it doesn't make sense. Doors lead to places that they wouldn't physically be able to, and there are so many uh and even like the guests having no context, and you know, there's this guy in the bear costume that we'll talk about later, and there's all sorts of just things that are just kind of in there that it's like they must have meaning, but maybe they don't, and it's created this weird like piece of art that people have like really projected a lot of crazy conspiracy theories, and since people love it so much, they put so much thought and work into it, and it's just like this we I mean, Stanley Kubrick's dead now.

He died in 99 of a heart attack. More on that later. Theories, conspiracies. Oh my god. But um it's just insane that there's just no way it's this movie to me has just become this like weird like ghost of its own. Like it's there's so much mystery to it. Was this shot in an actual art lodge or another interesting thing? So some of the exterior shots, a few of them were, and especially those big sweeping ones at the beginning, those were shot, I believe, in Oregon, and um beautiful as well. Um so most of the movie was shot in a studio in Britain, and even they built the entire hotel in this studio, and a lot of the exterior shots of the hotel are in a studio.

Oh, like on a miniature or something? No, they built it. There's no hedge maze at the uh hotel that they did that at. Like they built so much of this, and I believe I read a fact that said it was the largest set ever built at this studio in Britain, which I mean I have no idea what that means. Like maybe it's a small studio, but I was like, I mean, I believe it because that sounds like a lot. Yeah, huh? Interesting. So, what would y'all say, just like coming out of it, was your first thought? I mean, Ian, you aired towards confusion. Any other tentacles in that old brain of yours? Tentacles. Yeah. I didn't say that by accident.

I had a really good thought and then I just lost it. I like beautiful performance, start to finish. It was a touch too long for me. It comes in at about two and a half hours. Yeah, I think that extra half hour probably could have been negated. One of my opening thoughts was uh probably for a good half of the movie, I was like, I wonder why everyone talks about the shining and you know, raises it to a high pedestal. And I was like, wait a minute, is this whole movie not gonna show one like scary person or have one actual jump scare? And the whole fact of the scary movie is actually just the atmosphere in which they're in, and that's gonna add this like suspense.

I mean, yeah, for the most part. Yeah, for the most part, yeah, but I mean there ended up actually being things, but yeah, like that's what my initial thought was. I I just thought it was cool that like the quote unquote scariest part for me was the performance of the actors. Oh yeah, for sure. Like Jack Nicholson, fucking terrifying. He carried the movie. The kid was amazing, like those shots of him like screaming and everything, like beautiful. Yeah. Um, the little girls, not so much, but like I understood that from like. Yeah, yeah. But um even Wendy was there. Yeah. Um Wendy was terrifying. I love Wendy's. I I kept thinking, Carolyn, you basically wear the same outfits.

Excuse me, dress just like there was one she was wearing like the junk. I wish we would have watched this movie earlier because I would have been mine is much more stylish. I would have been Danny for Halloween for sure. Riding tricycle around. Danny is an ear, Mrs. Torrence. Thank you, Mrs. Torrance. Wow. You see, I told you scarier than the movie. She does that. Oh my god. I thought it was- I didn't know I had it in me. The shiny. There were there were a lot of moments there were a lot of parts of the movie that frustrated me, but there's a lot of the movie that was really, really solid. I lied. One of the scariest moments for me was the old lady in the bathtub.

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. That actually, I had nightmares about that when I was younger. That really terrified me as well. Yeah, but um, I mean, I think what's made it so scary, like, yes, she looked scary, but I think the actual cinematography of that scene, like, I I feel like from watching the movies that we do, the current ones at least, like, it's things are scary sometimes because they rely on jumping out at you. But that was just like fully visible, like uh it was on screen for too long almost, and that was what was scary about it. That's a recurring theme like all like when she's looking at the papers specifically. Oh my god, yes.

I was like, okay, we get it. Do you have to read every page? It's are you crazy? Fun fact about that. Really creative typography, though. Rumor has it that Stanley Kubrick sat down and hand-typed all 500 of those pages. So I loved it because there were time will tell. It was like Well, there were mistakes in the time has not told. There were mistakes in it, and like that made it more real. And then it got really creative with like the format and like it's like. Yeah, it's like he actually thought he was writing a book there, but it's just weird. She's seeing it, she's like, oh shit. Yeah. Yeah, that'd be crazy. If I saw papers from you that wrote that, that would be a sign.

What if one day you just like we're cleaning out the closet and you found like a huge like stack and it was all the same text? What if I didn't have a job and that's what I was doing all day? Scary. All work, no play. You gotta have a good time too. Yeah, shit happens. Uh, circling back to your complaint about the runtime, that was a big criticism when this movie first came out was that it was too long, and actually, it was a little bit longer when it first came out, but as it was in theaters, Stanley Kubrick had like theaters cut the projection and send scenes back to the studio and kept making it shorter while it was in theaters as they were getting like reviews back, which is insane to me.

Um it was longer than what we watched? Only slightly, but it was. He had people, like I said, go in with like literal scissors and remove scenes and return them to the studio. Huh. What's frustrating also about that is it seemed like the whole movie was the whole movie was pretty slow. But then like the last five minutes, it's like they tried to cram everything that they should have like just spanned it out in the movie with. I think there are a few scenes where it's like when you think about the order of events and things that happen, like I wouldn't want anything to go away, but there were some scenes by the end where I just kind of like, why are you taking so long to say it?

Just spit your words out. Yeah. Because they had there were just weird pauses between sentences and things, and specifically like when Wendy is watching TV after Danny has like been strangled or whatever, she says two sentences, and I'm like, we were there for like a solid 12 minutes. I was like, What? I mean, a really good scene in the movie, just I was like, why is it taking so long? But when Jack is in the bathroom with Grady, like a really great scene and a really like pivotal one, because you know, Grady's like, you need to take care of your wife and your son, and he's like, Yeah, I do. But um, it was just something where it's like someone would say something and then you just kind of look at them for like 30 seconds, and then the other one would respond, and I was like, Okay.

Yeah, I mean the bar p the bartender, another great like Lloyd. Oh yeah. Yeah. His name's Lloyd. Carol, you're just all over this movie. They do they I noticed in the casting characters the the names repeat. Wendy is one of the musicians, composers, yeah. Yeah, but I'm saying you specifically there's oh, I guess just Lloyd. I was going to say the Caroline, but there's no Caroline. Jack and Jack. Jack and Jack. Um, but I mean at the same time, this is based on a novel, so that's all coincidence. But were the bum bumps. Were your phone drops coincidences? I don't know. I don't know what was going on there. A ghost in the apartment. No, Ian was dozing off, and Parker slammed things around to wake him up.

I don't know. I don't know. Little past progressive over here. It almost scares me. You don't, you never know what I'm doing in here. I'm always eyes on everything in here. Alright, I'm losing my train of thought. I'm losing my train. Tell me some of these conspiracy theories. I need to know. Alright, well, I don't have anything like super flashed out because as I said, that's not what we're here for. Tell me about the I just that's the one big Well, that's the one that I have the most on. So I'll just like run off a few interesting ones for you. You can look these up for a lot more info. Maybe I'll post some links in our show notes if you want some further reading on these conspiracy theories.

In fact, there's an entire documentary called Room 237 that is just two hours of this type of info. So you can really dive in. Like I said, I mean this movie's been around since 1980, and people love it, and there's just all these weird idiosyncrasies in it that just people are like, what does it mean? So who knows? So there was a rumor going around before this movie was created that Stanley Kubrick had helped the government direct and orchestrate the Apollo 11 moon landing. That it was fake. So people had said, you know, Danny wears a suspicious sweater at one point, and they were saying that part of this movie is him apologizing or admitting guilt to his help with the moon landing.

Fake. Another one, which this one I actually kind of think there's some food for thought in here. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Do you think the moon landing is fake? I think everything's fake, Caroline. I have no clue. I mean what do we have? What proof do we have? Just kidding. I know nothing about this. If you're listening, do you think the moon landing happened? Yeah, leave us a five-star review and give us your answer. Uh, I think this one has some legs, if you know what I mean. But that the int but the thing is they're saying the entire movie is a commentary on the Native Indian journey and American oppression against Native Americans. I think that's really interesting.

And it is strange that there is so much Native American imagery and yeah, talk, and that's actually not part of Stephen King's book. He likes King likes to throw around an Indian burial ground, but that was not in this. So that is a product of the movie, and you have to ask why? Why would they do that if there wasn't meaning, you know? I but like, are there in this theory are there examples in like the script or like the stuff? Yeah, I mean, they uh just reference uh, you know, Jack throwing the ball against the picture on the wall. Apparently there was a cut scene where there were arrows left on his desk and things like that.

So I mean, all of these have interesting pieces of evidence. So another one is that this movie, this and uh Eyes Wide Shut, the last film he directed, that have come under the same fire, that these were exposes against the Illuminati. Exactly. And that he didn't die of a heart attack, but they killed him in 1999 before the release of Eyes Wide Shut to uh because he'd exposed them in The Shining. Um, I don't actually know what the Illuminati is. Oh, I can't talk about it. Yeah, yeah. One of my friends in high school said that his grandfather was a Freemason. Get on that. Mm-hmm. They stole the Declaration of Independence. And then what a more recent one is a theory from 2014 by someone named Mary Catherine Hamm.

You can look at it on her blog, but some convincing evidence be legit. Convincing evidence. Well, everyone can make conspiracy theories. You don't have to have a degree. Legitimate proof. But she has some curious examples saying that it is the same film as Frozen. Wow. She offers specific pieces of the story that have similarities and specific side-by-side screenshots uh connecting Elsa and Jack Torrance. I'm on board to research that one at least. Those were the main ones that I wrote down, but there are so many. Like I said, there's a really long movie about the conspiracy theories here. Uh and they're really interesting. So you want to know about this bear costume? Yes. Alright. There's an incredible uh video, really well put together and researched by Rob Eger's Collative Learning.

Uh, really interesting stuff. In fact, he really he has this really long piece on the entire movie that's interesting that I was reading. But I specifically am referencing here a video called The Shining, Danny's Ordeal, and the Bear Costumed Man that you can go watch, and I highly recommend. I'll give you the facts here. So in the book, there's this big subplot about the party guests, and one is a guy uh who has this like gay backstory, and there's this like scene, but he wears a dog costume in the book. In the movie, he wears a bear costume. Curious. Why change it? Well, collative learning suggests the bear costumed man sucking some D in that room represents a realization that Jack has been sexually abusing Danny this whole time.

I had that thought. So the book says that Jack's father was not specifically sexually abusive, but was abusive and alcoholic, and that now Jack is an alcoholic, and you can make assumptions about also, you know, abuse towards Danny, obviously, where it ends up. But he um this video's piece specifically links a few things. One, that when Ullman comes in to take Jack into his interview for the position, he's reading a Playgirl magazine, not a Playboy. And so that's obviously the one geared towards women with uh some sexy men, which good on him. But um, so that's Curious Thing one. Curious thing uh not two, it's kind of like many things in one, is the repetition of bear imagery in the movie uh related to Danny.

Uh he is on like a bear pillow at the beginning. There's some weird like images that line up with bears, and he kind of boils this all down to Danny being represented by bears and him being abused by his father, and there's some really crazy evidence that he brings up in that video, so you should look it up for sure. Why why are bears always synonymous with like scary movies? It seems like, or like creepy, like midsummer, obviously, with the bears and Midsummer, I believe we discussed in the episode, has a lot of imagery in folklore, and that's why that's a folklory thing. Well, that's specifically for Midsummer. This here is about childhood and teddy bears and things like that.

So I mean it's just different movie to movie. I didn't catch when we see the bear, who is it that is with him? That's what's so curious about scenes like that, is there's no context for it, it's just in there, and it's for people to kind of be like, What's going on? Yeah. So for me, I was interpreting on this theory that's Wendy having this epiphany that, like, oh my god, what has my husband been doing this whole time? So the Dead Meat podcast just did an episode on creepy kids, which was really good. But they bring up uh a discussion where they say that Danny represents the continuation of past traumas, and they discuss how his powers are what unveils the evils in the overlook and Jack.

I agree that he kind of seems like a reprim representation of like generational abuse. You know, it was from one guy to Jack, from Jack to Danny, like it's scary, will it be Danny to the next? You know, things like that. You know what I think about is what's that what's that series we watched in Portugal? Haunting Hill House. Yeah. I think of the the episode where the the w the sister goes into that that family's home where the foster kid is. Oh yeah, the smiley on the lays on the couch and then feels the fact that um the daughter had was being abused by her foster dad. I feel like that correlates with Danny's finger puppet, like a way to get or like Well, I think Tony and the Shining are different, but I definitely think that those two characters, the daughter, I forgot her name from the Hill House and Danny have kind of the same like heightened perception of other people, like they're just open to receiving energies and things like that.

Um here specifically, I think that one, Tony's a coping mechanism for what's been happening to him. You know, Wendy says that Tony came about when Jack dis uh dislocated his shoulder. And after uh the moment that this video actually pauses is the moment when uh Jack abuses Danny sexually, is when uh Tony takes over and he says, like, Danny's not here, Mrs. Torrance, like he's gone for the rest of the movie. Um that's what I think about Tony. But I think that this movie is not I don't think that Danny's powers are what unlock the evil in the overlook. I think that his powers are what allow us to see what's in the overlook, and that this whole building has been like us as an audience, like we see it because Danny can show us.

I had a hard time deciphering when things were going wrong, or like you start seeing things. I couldn't tell if this was like a peek into the journey of Jack's mental stableness or from the powers of Danny. Well, I think it's all just us seeing. Well, yeah. Yeah, I think the overlook, as cliche as it sounds and reviews to say that a place is a character, I think the overlook is a big presence in this movie. But I think we're seeing it because Danny's letting us, and we're just seeing like a past full of like hatred and trauma and evil that is just living here, and Danny's just the one who can see it. Well, like specifically room 237, the bathtub lady.

Mm-hmm. Like I didn't know if that was part of like the history of the hotel. Did like was that the wife in the bathtub? Or like, or was it Jack going crazy? I think that one part of that is that that's definitely like um it's definitely supposed to be, I think, like guilt or um regret over like his maybe like lusts or angers towards his wife. Yeah, maybe he hasn't cheated on Wendy, but he's grown such a hatred for Wendy. Maybe it's like this visual representation of like he sees someone that he wants and then oop bad, you know, don't want her. The guy, the uh the collative learning guy says that this is a dream that Jack has where he takes on the role of Danny and sees the woman as his abuser.

I thought that was interesting. But like I said, there's so many different ways to interpret these things. It kind of blows my mind because it's just like, how am I supposed to comprehend all of this? I do think there's a big like for how long it was the blend of Jack and his mental stability. There was a big jump for me when he lashes out at Wendy for the first time. Yeah, I don't think it was a gradual It was it said one month later, and then it was just like a get the fuck out of here kind of thing. Yeah. Uh it is interesting you bring that up because one of King's criticisms of this movie is that he didn't like Jack Nicholson being cast because he said that he looked crazy from the first moment and there's no arc there.

He did. That he's just crazy the whole time, and so there's no journey. But his craziness is good when the crazy needs to be crazy. Right. I felt like really like upset inside every time he would yell at Wendy because she's just so sweet. But like, even in his like job interview in the office, I was like, this guy's nuts. Yeah, I mean, he does seem that way. On the same note, uh, in 2013, journalist Laura Miller wrote a piece on King disliking this movie and kind of what you were just hitting on with uh Jack Nicholson being crazy. She wrote uh quote, King is essentially a novelist of morality. The decisions his characters make, whether it's to confront a pack of vampires or to bring ten years break ten years of sobriety, are what matter to him.

But in Kubrick's The Shining, the characters are largely in the grip of forces beyond their control. It's a film in which domestic violence occurs, while King's novel is about domestic violence as a certain as a choice certain men make when they refuse to abandon delusion or defensive entitlement. As King sees it, Kubrick treats his characters like insects because the director doesn't really consider them capable of shaping their own fates. Everything they do is subordinate to an overweening, irresistible force, which is Kubrick's highly developed aesthetic. They are its slaves. In King's The Shining, the monster's Jack, and Kubrick's The Monster is Kubrick. I thought that was an interesting quote in there. Well, yeah, and it's true because the book is, I would say, for a Stephen King book, a lot more plot-driven than other ones that I've read.

Um, but this movie doesn't even really matter who's who or what they're doing, but it's more about this like overwhelming sensation of dread that's going on the whole time, and the discomfort you can feel as the characters start to clash more, or maybe as Danny's innocence starts feeling more substantial against like Jack's evil and things like that. I'm gonna go out on a limb here. Go out there and say an alternate viewpoint of this movie. You get an inkling of what is it, secret window? You know? Secret window with Johnny Depp. Johnny Depp. Like that, I feel like is what this movie would be if it were from Jack's perspective. He definitely has like an alternative like truth in his mind of what is happening.

Yeah. I think what was upsetting for me is from the very beginning, like Wendy and Danny are just trying to have a good time, and like from the first moment where they're all three in the car together, he's just being so rude. He's just like, get out of my face, you can eat when we get to the hotel. What do you what do you think? I thought it was interesting about the cannibalism. Yeah. And and I thought that would come up or like something would happen. Do you think that was just I mean, one, I think that's just to set the scene. It's spooky, it tells us that bad things have happened in this area before.

Uh two, I think that cannibalism anytime it's in something is kind of an indicator or symbol of like almost like same thing with zombie movies, overwhelming like greed and the desire to like destroy other people in service of yourself. So I think thematically that sets the scene a little bit, a little foreshadowing, but also it's just spooky. I think what Jack says in his perspective is like key in that moment because he takes the side of like they did it to survive, they had to do it, and that plays into his ideology later of like I have to kill my family because I have this goal of like m like doing my job well. And even on the same thread, Wendy's immediate reaction was protect Danny.

So maybe that whole scene, whole movie right there. Maybe I just like ladies in horror films, but since I just really like Shelly Duval in this movie, uh, I wanted to take a moment to chat about her. So when they were filming this movie, Stanley Kubrick was apparently specifically really hostile towards Shelly Duval and was always kind of like heckling her over everything, and it was such a long process of shooting. Apparently, she was in and out of like sickness the whole time, and that eventually her hair started falling out because she was so stressed out. We're killing ourselves out here, and you're gonna be ready. No, I can't. We're sitting there because they say, wait a minute, and then you say on the radio.

When you do it, you've got to look desperate, Shelley. You're just wasting everybody's time there. I can't even get this recording. So it was a really traumatic thing, and then she said that when she went straight to being doing Popeye right afterwards, it was such a relief, and she had so much fun filming that movie because that had been so horrible. I started laughing out loud when she was running around with that knife. I'm that was hilarious. It's funny actually because I was watching when we were doing Scream 2 an interview. No, when we were doing I Know What You Did Last Summer, an interview with Sarah Michelle Geller. And she said, because she had been coming off of playing Buffy the Vampire Slayer, that when they were doing her chasing, they kept telling her, Stop running like that, you look too strong, you need to flail your arms around more.

So I mean Shelly, she just knew what she was, she knows how to run like a damsel. My mom, okay, so this is my mom has brought up something about the hotel and the shining before, and I couldn't remember, so I texted her and I said I asked her if she stayed in it in Colorado. And my mom texted me back just now and said, No, we visited it, and so did you. What? Apparently, when I was a baby, my mom took me to the hotel. Oh my god. In Colorado? Yeah, I think like my family had gone skiing. I did not because I was an infant, and they like knew it was there, and we like stopped by.

So you're probably talking about the Stanley Hotel. Yes, the Stanley. Is the hotel that Stephen King stayed in and was inspired to write the story The Shining. Yes, that's what it is. Different hotel than this was filmed at, but that's the Shining Hotel. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Very cool. I was there. No wonder you're so spooky now. I bet some ghosts just like right into you. Yeah. Ooh! So the snow in this movie was made from 900 tons of salt and crushed gyro foam. Huh. It was not snowing there. That's a lot of snow. You know. I wonder, uh, it probably wasn't fun to get that in your mouth. Also, Danny's escape was pretty brilliant. Sliding out the window?

No. No, the maze. He like steps backwards. Oh. Good. Good stuff. Which reminds me that Maze scene, Ian, I have a fact just for you. This was in the first uh dozen, as the internet says. Uh there were, I believe, three movies, I believe, before it that for sure used it, but one of the first films to ever use a steady cam. Oh. And they really use that pup following Danny on that tricycle, and then the way it's kind of weaving around uh Jack and Danny in the hedge maze. I I did enjoy the tricycle scene where he goes around. Yeah, those were good. Nice. So there you go. Also, in 2018, this film was selected for preservation in the United States National Film Registry by the Library of Congress.

Does that mean if the world blows up, the movies will be safe? The aliens will find it, yeah, first. What would you say? And I think we have to be a little creative here to come up with our most memorable murder. We have a few. We have Dick Holloran stabbed right to the chest with that axe. Oh yeah. We have the Grady twins in that iconic scene uh on the floor, recreated by Jordan Peel with the twins and us. I've heard that he very specifically placed those twins' bodies to look the same. Um we have, I mean, we could say Jack was murdered, but I mean, like, not really, but like he died, so count it.

Um I gotta answer. I gotta go with Jack because you don't see anything, it's just like morning, and he's like there with his eyes. It was more like the most anticlimactic murder. I loved it though. I hate anti-climactic. That was pretty good. Yeah. I'm gonna go with the Grady twins. I think that's a pretty fun scene where it keeps flashing back and forth between them standing there and them being on the ground all slashed up. I have to go to X to the chest. So Wow. Three-way draw. Also, that was the first time that I, you know, him frozen as a meme. Have you seen that one? Yeah, yeah. And I saw it and like it wasn't moving, and I was like, is this whole movie a meme?

Kind of. Inception. Yeah. In a way. Well, yeah, so many famous things. I didn't even know. I think I've even said like, here comes Here's Johnny. Here's Johnny. Here's Johnny. And I didn't know where it was from, and then I was like, huh. Well, I always used to get because I didn't see Mrs. Doubtfire until recently, but the the cream on the face and his face in the door I thought were the same thing for a while. Yeah. Well, here's Johnny was improvised by Jack Nicholson from the announcer on the Johnny Carson show. And since Stanley Kubrick is British, he had not seen that, didn't know what it was, almost didn't use it in the movie, and now it's iconic.

That whole scene on the stairs, I imagine it was just Jack Nicholson improvising. With the baseball bat? Yes. Everything like he like sticks out his tongue and his eyes are going crazy and he's slotting. You fucking kidding me. That's why she that's why her hair was falling out because she was in such a terrible spot from having to do shit like that. I was going to point out there were some scenes with music that seem strange because the music seems to be like pointing at something and then necessarily matched up. But I actually think the music here is really interesting because I noticed like when Wendy walks into the big like grand room and the music is like really intense, and she's like, hey, what's up?

And then it like does like a bum, like when he rips the paper out of his typewriter, and you both laughed. And I was thinking, like, yeah, that is kind of out of place. Hi, honey. How's it going? Fine. And then right afterwards, it's silent. He's like yelling at her, like, when I'm in here, you don't come in here. Get out. And we're gonna make a new rule. Whenever I'm in here, you hear me typing. Whether you don't hear me typing, what the fuck you hear me doing in here? When I'm in here, that means that I am working. That means don't come in. How do you think you can handle that? Yeah. Why don't you start right now and get the fuck out of here?

And I thought, actually, then I started tuning in with the music. And it seems like every time it's lined up with people's like mental states instead. Like you can see the music kind of following the trend of like Jack's inner monologue or whatever going on. So like there's the scene where Danny uh comes in and he's being quiet because he thinks Jack's asleep. Oh, that was the creepy. Come here, let's talk. And if the music had been nice, it might have been like a nice sweet scene or something, but instead the music is this really eerie, creepy music because Jack is like not being loving, he's being creepy weird, like I'm gonna kill you soon. So I think I was really trying to like catch when the music because the music's never really pointing to like a jump, or it's never point like we're used to with horror films.

I think the music has a deeper like character in the film where it's kind of guiding our thoughts with Jack. I think in a way though, for me, it like callused me in a way. Like there were one scene, I don't remember when it was, but I remember thinking it was Wendy and she was by herself, and there were a couple of like jumpy moments in the music, and she was like doing something really mundane. Yeah. And I was like, like opening is something happening now? Like I yeah, yes. Yeah. And it was like I was just spooky pretty at that point on. I was like, okay, like I need to just like not pay attention to the music at all.

I feel like I knew that aligned with what Parker said. I I feel like they were doing something intentional with the music to not align with the scare, but I think they did it so much. Right, that's why I'm saying it callously. Two-thirds of the movie, yeah, two-thirds of the way in. I was like, I liked the concept, now I'm over it. Maybe if you go with Caroline's train of thought, maybe it's like you could think of it as like things like the music are kind of like the extra tone that's going on in the background, and you're like seeing everything within the music and not as part of it. Does that make sense? Like maybe like you're like the music is like the hotel, like you're in the music and the scene's happening, and the music is more of setting the tone for the entire movie.

I think that's why it made more sense for me let's say two-thirds of the way in, because like until the very last part or ha let's say halfway, like there wasn't a lot of scary, you know, extra like things. It was just like we discussed earlier, just the ambiance itself. And so that's when I was like, oh, this music makes sense. Like you said, maybe it is a living part of being in the atmosphere, but then that paired with the actual actions and the quote unquote horror stuff, it was just too off. I think because we've seen such like a varied amount of scary horror films, it's like I I love going from like a really happy place to like something dark is happening.

I feel like that contrast works for me, but I think people have played over time with the thought of like happy music with something dark happening as creepy, like the whole like children's kind of like in uh Insidious with the like Yeah, yes, like and there's that version, and then I think on the opposite spectrum of that is this, like just like scary the whole time. Well, and also we talked about the music in Insidious Lot 2, because you know it has like the like all the like really aggressive, like uh I don't even know how to describe that music where it just is really overwhelming. Yeah. So this is the first time that I've seen this tactic used, and I think that's why it was so jarring to me.

The real question is, how stoked did you get when you saw all that meat? All that frozen meat. I did think, wow, they're saving money working there, five months, no rent, no food costs, pork, just getting paid. Guys, would you would you do this? All three of us, and we could just focus on the podcast. No, no, yeah, and all and all we would do is watch scary movies and record the podcast. I hate big buildings like that. I think the building would be the only thing saving me because I could go if I was sick of y'all, I could go somewhere totally different. No, I couldn't. If it was in a smaller building, it creaks or noises coming from everywhere.

I can't do big, non-occupied buildings. I feel like I would probably stay in that little apartment that they had the whole time. I would be terrified the whole thing. If it were the three of us in that in that one little apartment or this apartment we're living in right now for five months not getting out, it would happen just like the movie, where I would just act ya. I'd do the same thing. I'd be like, Caroline, when I'm at my desk, that means I'm working. I would be clinging to you guys the whole time. It's what it's how you are when you get in your cleaning mode. I like things to be clean. Then all of a sudden she has a bat.

Swinging it for no one to get hit. I'm like laxadacally swinging it, and Ian's like, get away. Don't touch me. Alright, alright, alright. If we were going to, I think let's try this. If we were going to rate this movie on a scary scale. One to five. Well, this one is weird because like sitting here asking myself, would I do this? The concept is scary. Execution was not. I think you have to dig deep into how it's made you feel. I think you have to, like, Ian is very astutely tapping into. Think more about it's not about being like, ugh, or covering your eyes. It's like, how do you, like Ian said, feel afterwards? Does anything creep with you?

Did it dig under your skin? For example, I think, even though I have a lot of criticisms of the movie, I think from a one to five scare scale, personally, was in context to all the other movies we watched, was like a five. A five from a four or five. And too late, you said five. Yeah. Carol? I'm gonna go with a six. Whoa! It's one to five. Oh, sorry. I thought it was ten. I thought it was ten. I was like, why are you saying wow? He went middle of the road. One to five, six. Okay, I'm alright. I'll go with a four. Because it's not like hearing someone walk behind me, like creepiness that I'll get later, but like I could see myself in a situation in the future.

Like when I was watching this, it reminded me of the hotel that we stayed in Melnick, Bulgaria. Oh, for sure. We get it. You've traveled. No, no, listen to me. It was like it used to be a huge communist leader headquarter in this tiny little mountain town in Bulgaria, and we went down to play ping pong in their little basement. And it was dark. Just like pitch black dark, and the lights turned on when we walked in, and then all of a sudden there were mannequins and different communist uniforms, and I turned around and there are all of these like propaganda posters and like all this stuff, and I was like, freaking like pure, like pure marble white.

Oh, it was grand and beautiful, and it looked like something out of a war movie. Like it was quite interesting. It was, and you could tell you were like, this is where the officers ate their dinner, and this is where like the officers stayed and they partied. Long story short. But you have time to do it. Yes, but uh when I was watching this movie, I was like, Yeah, if I were to go back and stay in that hotel right now after seeing this movie, I would be freaked out. Oh yeah. Yeah. For myself. That's a good point. Through the eyes of someone, if I were to see this for the first time, I think I would give it a four.

Especially because I haven't seen this in a bit, and I saw it a few times when I was younger, and I just don't think I quite got what it was going for. So based on like how many times I've seen it, I would give it like a 3.5 or a 3 or something like that. But I think I'm gonna go with a four because watching it now and kind of being able to like understand and tap into some of the deeper things going on, I think uh it's a little more scary. Whereas when I was younger, there's layers like I was like, what's going on here? Kill 'em. A lot of layers. I want to see someone get axed like Friday the 13th.

I do think this movie provides a lot of like different types of scares, though. Like there's like a haunting element, and then like for adults, you like think about like this progression into like mental instability. And also, like, I feel like it was maybe early for the whole like kind of like abuse, yeah, domestic violence, like stuff as well, which is interesting. Yeah. So like a lot of layers. And like old hotels are creepy. Yeah. I also think it's winter. It's tough because as much as we've been talking about this movie like being a progression of all of these things finally out of control, I think it's kind of clear that this isn't new. These things have kind of been happening to this family over time.

Right. And they've been struggling with that. So I think that's scary as well. So we got a four from me and Carol and a five from Ian. Alright, would you give this movie a smash or a slash? This is like a I mean a smash, but like a uh dating app match that like you know go over to like three times and then never speak to again. Three times, so you'd watch it again, you'd smash again. Yeah, like when it's like a Sunday rainy night and it's like the invite's there. It is a nice like warm, cozy fire, autumnal, maybe more winter, yeah. Kind of a cozy mood. I am embarrassed to say that the smash would happen a couple times, but then like get rid of it.

Oh, don't be embarrassed. I know, but like that kind of like live your uh live your expression and your freeze. I'm just gonna wait over here until you're ready. Yeah, Ian. Um I'd give it a smash. I would say it's one of those movies I would like to see a remake of. Oh, boo. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Yeah, I think part of the charm here is the datedness. I think the a shining two. Oh, oh, well that's what I mean. Well, you might be in luck. Uh so I think the entire value and charm of this movie is story, crumble, piece of paper, throw it over my shoulder. It's all visuals, it's all style, it's all the like Kubrickness of it.

I think that a remake of this movie would be like, don't even try, people would riot, uh, someone would get murdered in real life. I know. But the Illuminati would say. NASA would be like, hey. Hey, we had to fake this once. Um, so I'm gonna definitely give it a pretty hard smash. Uh, and since Ian has already brought it up, I'm just gonna go ahead and spoil what's happening next week. We are going to uh so Dr. Sleep, you may have heard of it, or you may be like Ian wondering, ugh, where does Danny go? What does the Shining Saga have to reveal? Right now, we are releasing this episode the same weekend that, or I guess this past weekend that Dr.

Sleep hit theaters. And next week we ourselves will be going to the theaters and talking about Dr. Sleep. So tune in as we watch and review the sequel. Danny's Journey Continues in Dr. Sleep. So you know what we're doing next week, and I'm pretty freaking excited. That trailer is really good. But we have to backtrack a little bit and say, what's your favorite scary movie? The Shining. Yeah, The Shining. I'm gonna keep it with Daniel Isn't Real from Brooklyn Horror Film Festival. No, I'm gonna say The Shining. Yeah, it's the Shining. Yeah! Got him. You got me. Peer Pressure. While you're waiting for us to reveal all the juicy deets on Dr. Sleep, you can go over to Apple Podcasts and leave us a rating and a review.

This review is from Mickey Pfeiffer. Um Mickey says, great podcast, excited for more. So far, I've loved the mix of new horror movies and classics that the crew has covered. There is a great analysis and commentary as well as subjective input from all hosts. V subjective. Mickey loves my subjective input. That's my face. No. They said all all hosts, though, so that includes me. Aww. Until next Monday. My name is Parker Heron. You can find me on Instagram and Twitter, and letterboxed at Parker Del Rey. My name is Caroline. You can find me on Instagram at Carol Manifesto. And my name is Ian Hoyt. You can find me on YouTube at Ian Hoyt. And check out the whole crew on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, at ScarymoviePod, and find some flamin' hot reviews at ScarymoviePod.com slash reviews.

Or just go to the website. I don't know why I specified reviews. Reviews, calendar, all sorts of stuff. You can send us your thoughts, feedback, requests, whatever your heart desired desires at Scarymoviepod at gmail.com. Danny is in here, Mrs. George. Here's Danny