The Lure feat. Rachael Montgomery

Hello, Sydney. Hi, it's Sidney. It's your killer host. My name is Parker, your resident horror fanatic, and this week I'm joined by a very special guest. Welcome to. What's your favorite scary movie is a horror film podcast where we're on a journey to find our favorite scary movie one at a time. Whether you hate them or love them. Spoilers ahead, so plan your movie screening every weekend before the episode release. We're taking a break from the heat and heading under the sea. But I won't be the only poor unfortunate soul this week. Welcome, daughter of Triton, Rachel Montgomery. Thank you for having me. I really like that introduction. Thank you. I looked up the Little Mermaid uh soundtrack and just tried to put as many of the song titles as I could in that.

And three, not that impressive, but no, I think that's pretty good in that amount of time. Thank you. Uh, how are you doing? I'm pretty good. I mean, I'm still on an emotional high after watching that movie yesterday. A lot of time thinking about it. Before we get into the lure, oh my god, how many times have you said the lure and thought, is it lure or lure? No, I had this conversation because I've spent a lot of time in my life focusing on pronunciation of words. And in fancy Shakespeare things, there's something called a liquid you. And uh so I, if you were gonna do that, you kind of can with lure, but where it's like lure.

So becomes very fancy. Lore. Oh, hideous. It's lure. It has like a slight, almost two syllables. Yeah, I think when I was recording the last episode that I did with Julianne, I I do a thing sometimes when I haven't planned ahead very well, where I'll be like, oh, and join us next time when we're watching insert movie title, and then I'll keep going. And then I'll go back and record myself saying it. And I had a moment where I was like, the lure, the lure, lure. The lure. Also, though, like I get really tickled when I look at how the American version is called the lure, and then you look at the version that's in Polish, and it's like, that's not well, quirky dancing goo.

It's like I'm pretty sure that doesn't literally translate. Like, I don't think that the Polish word for lure is dancing goo. Well, before we get into quirky dancing goo or daughters of disco, for those who don't speak Polish, uh, Rachel, I had a few questions for you. Hit me. First of all, do you have any sort of bio to share with us? Well, I was born on a balmy morning, July 11th, 1991, in Chicago, Illinois. Ooh. I went to college and then I went to grad school, and uh now I live in Washington, DC, where I uh am an actor and playwright and teaching artist and front desk extraordinaire. So I have many, many cats and jobs, and and I'm the sister of one Parker Heron.

You've been begging to be part of our world here on the pod. So tell me, what is it about horror that draws you to it? Uh, well, we could do a whole podcast on that, but I guess in a nutshell, especially because I've been going back and listening to some episodes and thinking about all of the gems that I would have added in. My episodes? Yes. But you know, but it does make me think a lot about like why I actually care about this genre, because something that we share as siblings is our love of horror movies. And and I still you'll probably find me on this, but I think I loved them first. But oh, for sure.

I just admitted on our Drag Me to Hell episode that I didn't really watch horror until like, I don't know, I was a teen because mom and dad were so strict about what I watched. Yeah. Uh that's accurate. Um I wasn't allowed to watch Sabrina the Teenage Witch. I guess we started watching them because my BFF growing up had her birthday the day before Halloween, and so we always wanted to watch something scary for her birthday. And we started with Hitchcock movies because we were little babies and very scared and didn't want to watch anything truly scary. Um, so we started with those, and those do have like some scares in them, but they're more atmospheric and less about like gore or about jump scares.

And then we moved into like Wait Until Dark with Audrey Hepburn, which has one of the best jump scares of all time. So we really started with the oldies, and I don't really know at what point I started to really appreciate more contemporary horror film, but I have to say there's like a huge gap in my knowledge because I haven't seen a lot of like the more classic 70s, 80s. I've never seen all of Nightmare on Elm Street, but anyway. There's a lot. I know. And oh, the first movie? Yeah. Oh, I thought you meant the series. I was like, I mean, I don't blame you. I I've seen a bit of the first one, but not the whole thing.

So I've got some catching up to do, and I've got plenty of time right now, so isn't that great for me? You know what? I think that we could probably like delve into some deep like personal history psychoanalysis of why we like horror movies versus all the shit we were not allowed to watch. I think there's probably some some deep tears to be had there. Yeah. But yeah, but I really like what I like about horror movies. I'm gonna answer this for like the fourth time. It's just that it's like ultimately like about the ways that we're vulnerable. And it's kind of, I think it's a really exceptional form of storytelling when you can take something that every person experiences and then externalize it and turn it into the boogeyman and say, like, well, let's look at this and talk about it.

So it's so much about like grief and it's so much about femininity and being young and about sex because when are you more vulnerable than when you're naked? Never. My final question for you before we look at Quirky Dancing Goo is what, pray tell, oh, is your favorite scary movie? Well, that's just a hard question. And I did spend like five minutes thinking about it, and I went down a rabbit hole and then I forgot to pick one. Well, and maybe who knows? Maybe by the end of it, I'll change my mind and I'll say Quirky Dancing Goo. But I think I was just listening to your episode of It Follows, and I know that you had some issues upon second watch, and I have not had a second watch of it.

So, based on my first theatrical experience of that movie, I thought it was a real game changer for me. I loved It Follows. I also thought about uh Cabin in the Woods. Postmodern take. Love it. I love okay. But here, you know what? I'm gonna change my answer because I'm gonna go for like an indie deep cut pick, which maybe isn't that deep of a cut, but we'll find out. I a couple of years ago saw We Are What We Are on Netflix, I think. It might still be available. And it's just this like small, independent, cannibal family drama. Classic. It's not that scary, and it's definitely a slow burn, but the end of it really got me, and I was deeply like affected and kind of upset by it.

So if you haven't seen that, see that. Yeah, and that is a very good one. And streaming on Shudder, I'm pretty sure. So yeah. Oh, great, it's so good. Enough about you. We're sick of it. Back to the lure. Yeah. The lure. The lure debuted in well, what a history this movie had. But I mean, largely just because it's a Polish film, just getting to America. So really not that big of a history, just me being an American and thinking. But the lure originally premiered in 2015, but really didn't make its way to the States until 2017. As I said earlier, it is originally called, and as we will uh experience soon, just forgiveness for any mispronounced words here, because Rachel and I are not Polish, but we have the utmost respect for Poland.

So it is called Corky Dancingu in Polish, which translates to Daughters of Disco. As I might discuss a little more in a moment, it is uh based loosely on the Hans Christian Andersen tale, The Little Mermaid, which I just found out was originally titled, again in Danish, but in English, originally titled Daughters of the Air. Yeah, so a little tribute there that is maybe a little bit of a deeper cut than you would think, originally thinking that it's called Little Mermaid. Daughters of Disco was directed by Agnieszka Smokzinska. Beautiful. Thank you. And the lure was her debut feature. That's impressive. There was clearly a budget to be had here. Yeah, this film is insane. And this is an insane movie to make as your first movie.

It really was just like, you know, fuck everything. I'm just going to make this movie of my dreams. Well, you might be onto something there, but I also think that, you know, if it were me and I were given free range to make my first feature film, I might be sitting there thinking to myself, like, oh man, I don't want to be like pigeonholed into some category. So if I do like a romance, it'll always be romances, or if I do a procedure, it'll always be that. If I do whatever. So maybe she just really sat down one night and was like, what movie could I make that would definitely not pigeonhole me? And anyway, it must be a horror musical about mermaids.

And even that, calling it a horror musical, this movie, what is it not? It is everything. It's a comedy, it's a drama, it's a medical mystery. It's similarly, have you ever heard that the first single that Cindy Lopper was supposed to release was Time After Time, and she said, No, I don't want to be a ballad girl. So she put out girls just want to have fun instead. She's a smart lady. Okay, I'm gonna ask a question here, speaking of Cindy Lopper, that I feel like I should know. There is a song that is sung by the nightclub singer that really sounded like a familiar 80s hit, but I could not place it. Do you know?

Yes, it is called I Feel Love. Oh, yes, yes, yes. Yes, that is the only song from this film that is not an original composition. Great fit, great choice. So back to Agnieszka, because we're on first name basis. She also has since directed a segment in the anthology film The Field Guide to Evil from 2018 and Fuga from 2018. Could also be pronounced Fuga. Fuga, Fuga. Uh and she is slated on IMDB at least to direct an upcoming field called Silent Twins and episodes of a TV show called Warrior Nun. Ooh. The lore, however, is semi-autobiographical because Smokzinski. She's a mermaid. No. But sh her mother ran a restaurant similar to the one in the film, and she says that until she was 12, she spent most of her days in the nightclubs.

But this film was not inspired by her story. Because I will reveal to you whose story it was inspired by in a moment. Mine. Yes, ours. We have come from the sea to start a podcast. I would love that. The lore was written by Robert Ballesto. He also wrote the script for many of Smokzinska's short films when she was in school and the same segment in The Field Guide to Evil. The music from The Lore, which slaps so good. I was kind of looking up what the reactions to this film were online, like critical and audience, because I was like, what the hell? And one of the reviews was like, the singing is so bad in this movie.

And I was like, excuse me, it is so good. It's amazing. And I also, speaking of our utmost respect for Poland, it's really amazing to see a musical that's not in your native language. Um because first of all, you have to really look at the lyrics in a way that I wouldn't if it was in English. You know, I might miss some of that. And the and it makes me wonder like, why are you laughing? The lyrics in this movie are hilarious. They repeat themselves a lot, but they're weird. And but also, so like reading these very strange lyrics, but then hearing them, and it's also sounds very strange. I don't know a lot about the Polish language, but like it sounds like especially with music, like to an American ear, it sounds very otherworldly.

And so I don't know. I really thought that that added a lot for my experience of it. It it was weird to compare this to something like opera, but it did kind of feel like watching an opera because it was so like it kind of takes you out of the I felt the exact same way, and I was actually nervous because, you know, I don't watching foreign language films is like nothing to be scared of or nothing to avoid because there's so much, you know, as the whole hubbub last year with Parasite winning the Academy Award for Best Picture, uh, I'm pretty sure that Bong Jun-ho said that if you can get past like the inch high fight or uh barrier of subtitles, then there's a whole world of films to see.

But I will say in particular, seeing this uh advertised, I was like, can a musical have the same effect on me if I don't understand the lyrics? And I'm happy to report that it has just as good of an effect on me. Yeah, absolutely. And for anyone who is skeptical about it, like, do think about going to see the opera because there aren't that many in English, and people still go, and that's part of the experience, is like the music hits you in a different way that's not so intellectual. And I think that's great. Yeah, and like you said, having this in another language kind of adds to that kind of eerie siren call of the movie.

I'm fully convinced that mermaids are Polish. Well, I hate that person who said that the singing isn't beautiful, it was really beautiful. Well, so finally, of my facts to share. The music was by, and this one I did look up how it would be pronounced in Polish. It's by Beladi e. Romanza. Ooh. Now, do you know did the actresses do their own singing? They surely did, and I wrote in my notes Le Mez Who because they recorded them live with the filming of the movie. Damn. Yeah, even more impressed. So Balladi e Romanza is a sister duo, Barbara and Susanna Ronsky, and they began recording music in 2005, and their first album was recorded in their kitchen using a combination of instruments and everyday objects.

Oh you say Barbara and Zusanna? Zusanna. I only want to be referred to as Susanna from now on. Uh well, they have one other album on Spotify in America because unfortunately, that is what you and I, Rachel, are limited to. We are not able to access Spotify's international database. Um, but they have one album on besides this one on the American Spotify, and it also slapped. It was pretty good. I need to listen to it. I need new running music. Uh the soundtrack for this movie I've been putting on while I'm like going around the house doing chores. And what's perfect is I cannot listen to English language music while I'm doing work. Yeah, I can either.

So I usually listen to classical music, and this I'm not distracted by the lyrics because I don't know them. The duo also makes a cameos as the wedding band at the end of the film. Oh, cool. Yeah, a little fun fact for you. And the sisters' parents were nightclub performers. Uh Ballesto wanted to make this movie their story of growing up backstage in the clubs. However, they were not excited about that. So then they added the element mermaids. It's weird how well. I mean, I don't know what kind of conversations they had brainstorming for this, but using mermaids and like tying that to the music is really smart. Yeah, and actually, this movie is a Criterion movie, which I'm sure is how it came to uh much of its recognition in America because it's also streaming on the Criterion channel.

If you subscribe, if you're bougie, which I am not. When a movie is a criterion, it was picked up by the Criterion Channel, they make a documentary about it and they have extra special features. So I watched the documentary on the lure. That was a big piece, which you mentioned a second ago. That was a big piece of what Smoksinska had to say was that the way she was intimidated by the idea of making a musical because she said there are not many musicals in Poland, uh at least movie musicals. And so she didn't have a lot of reference points. But by making it about mermaids, she thought that was a very naturalistic way to make it a musical because the song and singing is such a big part of mermaid mythology.

Yeah, yeah. And it was kind of funny to me that in that opening scene, the fact that we hear the men singing first, and obviously I didn't think they were singing in a mermaid language, but then when we hear the girls singing in the water, I did not put together that they were singing in Polish. I was like, oh my god, this is mermaid language. Because I don't have that great of an ear for Polish yet. Yeah, yes. Now we are down a rabbit hole of Polish films, I'm sure. Oh, I hope so. Okay, so let's talk a little bit about the actors in this film. So we have Michelina Olzanska, who plays Golden, and she also appeared in the movie I Olga Hepneroba in 2016, uh, which she won a bunch of awards for.

So congratulations to her. And uh she also appears in the Polish Netflix series 1983, which is the prequel to 1984. Just kidding. I made that up. Okay, so the movie also stars Marta Mazerek, who plays Silver, and she also appears in I Olga Headnerova. And the TV show, oh no, I'm just gonna go for it. Wojan Duwinski. Sounds like a basketball player. It does. Dirk Nowitzki. The next actress that we have is Kinga Preis, who plays Chrysia, who is the nightclub singer. Uh, she is a decorated Polish film and theater actress. She was in the movies Silence in 2001, The Collector in 2005, and Four Nights with Anna in 2008. And then last but not least in the main cast, we have Jacob Gersal, who plays Mietik, and he was in the movie Suicide Room in 2011, and Dracula Untold in 2014, and he is a very cute boy.

Ooh, and also my hair will soon be at the same length as his. Well, he does some good things with it, so I would say that's an opportunity and not a problem. Yeah. At the wedding, when it's like victory rolls, I was like, oh. I yeah, I was really amazed by that. I'm just gonna go ahead and ask a question that I feel like you might roast me for. Are they a family? Oh my god. Yeah, no, I have the same thoughts. I didn't think so at first, and then we reached a point where I was like, oh, that's their son. Yeah, it's tough for sure. The drummer, because he is a name that I'm not certain we ever see.

I know we see the names Chrissy and Miytek in the film. Yeah, but her uh Chrissy and the drummer. Are obviously married because there's a scene where he leaves the ring on their coffee table for that she's wearing hers. However, I am not completely certain that Mutec is their son. I mean, are you looking at the hair correlation though? Those blonde curls don't lie. Exactly. Yeah, in my research, it's they're always referred to as a band and not a family. So I'm really in the band if not a family. Well, there you have it. The first time I saw this movie, when Silver gets a glimpse of Chrissy blowing someone in the bathroom, I thought it was Miytek.

I was gonna ask you this because I decided not to rewind ultimately. But I was like, do we see who it is? And I because I also wondered if it was Miyotech. We don't see who it is, and I rewound it like five times. Oh, okay. Yeah, I was confused by that too. Who knows? Maybe it was some third party, or maybe it was the guy who's like the uh manager of the nightclub. Yeah, I am not sure. But through all of this, if you have not seen the lure and are wondering what it's about, well, I'll tell ya. According to IMDB, it is in Warsaw, a pair of mermaid sisters are adopted into a cabaret.

While one seeks love with humans, the other hungers to dine on the human population of the city. It's a decent synopsis. Sure. And then on Rotten Tomatoes, the critic's score is 88%, the audience score is 73%. The critic's consensus says the lore adds a sexually charged, genre-defined twist to well-established mermaid lore, more than overpowering its flaws through sheer variety and wild ambition. This just makes me want to weave a sentence together where we talk about mermaid lore in the lure. Yeah, quite the phonetic conundrum we are having here. I love that consensus though. Yeah, I think so too, because honestly, my first reaction to the film, because that is just right up next on the sketch, is the first time I watched this, I was absolutely going nuts trying to figure out what was happening.

I was enjoying it and loving it. First of all, because it's just so weird. Yeah. But I was also like screaming and rewinding every two seconds because I was like, what the hell am I looking at? And I was so furious that, you know, it's not until about like halfway, three-quarters to the way of the movie that like a plot develops. Because it's not that that I'm mad at. It's just that I couldn't tell if there was a plot and I just didn't know it. I know. Well, and I think that's kind of on purpose, you know. Like I think the strength of this movie is the fact that it's so difficult to pin down. And it definitely suits my sensibilities as like a theater person.

I like to see something like this and be like, what the hell was that? What did I just watch? To me, that's really exciting. And the fact that we're having this conversation now, like, are they a family? Are they not? Does it change anything? I'm glad it's not spelled out for me. Yeah. And actually, when I watched this the first time, trying to think, like, oh, should I do this with Rachel? I was like, hell yeah, this is so theatrical. We gotta. Yes. But ultimately, I will say that watching it a second time, I was like, everything makes sense. Yeah, I it follows a dream logic for sure, that it definitely feels true to itself. And I kind of wanted to talk about the world of it because obviously, as we have previously discussed, my exposure to Polish culture is pretty much gonna be a zero.

And and so I wondered like how this would look to a Polish person if they're like, oh, well, I've been to a nightclub that looks like that. But I kind of think probably not. Like this nightclub, like, let's talk about it. Because in the first scene, I have to say, I much prefer this nightclub before it gets popular, where there's like maybe seven people there. They're all over the age of 45, but they're all having a fantastic time. Yeah, there's a woman with like she's in like a jumpsuit with a clutch, she just walks into another room and starts dancing like hard. And she had like a whole dance floor to herself, which is what I crave.

And probably my favorite moment of the entire film is in this first like 10 minutes when the nightclub owner walks into the kitchen and talks to the cook, and she's just like, I was really hoping you were gonna bring that up. And you also, when you were describing this movie to me, you were like, it's just boobs all the time. But my favorite boobs in the entire movie was that woman in the kitchen, and they were not naked, they were just like they were good and they were bouncing, and I was here for it. That actress deserves an award for that cameo. I think this movie is the strongest though when you're not trying to figure out what's going on.

The first time I was like trying to be like analytical and like, is this a movie I can talk about on the podcast? I have to know all of its secrets. And it was absolutely infuriating. But the second time when I knew where it was going and I watched it, I didn't care about knowing its secrets, air quotes. And it was so enjoyable and so much fun because honestly, the first half of the movie, nothing does happen. It's just about getting to know everyone and getting to see the scene that they've set and the world that they've built. Yeah. And that's the funnest part of the whole movie. Yeah, I agree. And I think that the movie succeeds mostly in its ability to actually like in the American version, it's called the lure.

But that's what it does. Like it it like a siren song or something, like it actually pulls you in and like forces you to accept it on its own terms instead of trying to translate it into some kind of plot that makes any sense at all. Yeah, and then the last thing that I was well, not the last thing, but the other my other first reaction thing that I was very impressed with was the sound design of the movie, not just the music, but what's going on in addition to the music. And they talk about it a lot in the Criterion documentary, how the uh the band, the composers, Balladie eat Romanza, and the sound designer had to work so closely together because not only is there music, but there's also like the the sounds that the mermaids make when they're you know speaking in telepathic conversations.

And there's so many things where there's like weird wail noises that just come in throughout the movie. Yeah, it's so cool. Even I love there's a part where uh Silver and Golden are fighting, and they're singing a song. I can't remember which song it is, but Golden mimics slapping her and it makes like a loud wail noise. Yeah. It's so cool, and so there's just really like I've said it so many times on this podcast, and actually, I was watching well, this is a spoiler for what's next week, but I was watching an interview with Tony Todd where he describes um and said this very not jokingly or and unironically, and it just made me laugh so hard.

He was like, you know, every character is like an onion, and you've just got to peel through the layers. And I was like, an onion, more like an ogre. Was this a pre-strike interview? No, and so I could not believe he said this, but the lure is very much like an onion. Oh, yeah, not only in its storytelling, but in its production. There are so many layers to what is just like this complete overwhelming experience of visual audio. It's incredible. It's also like an onion in that they talk a lot about funky smells. Indeed. Smells that as a gay man, I was like, I don't, I don't know. What are they talking about? I don't know.

Then I Googled it, and the director was like, vaginas. Yeah, one of many uh comparisons to be made here about like talking about femininity and like obsessing over it in certain ways and the good bits and the bad bits of being a girl. So the first thing that I noticed about it, you know, it opens on a kind of somber note, and you don't know what kind of story you're in yet. It feels kind of serious because you just have these people smoking on the beach, it's night, and then these girls come up and everyone starts singing. And the song is gorgeous, so good, and I loved it. Um, and also noteworthy, as I said, when you are watching the subtitles and reading the lyrics a little bit more clearly, that he talks about seeing this girl who's only 17.

And so I was like, hmm, I'm gonna file that away. Pedaphile that away. Exactly. That's a good one. Thank you. Anyway, and then we get into the nightclub, and it's this weird, like kitschy, like kitty, campy environment, super bubblegum pop. And it feels at the same time very harmless, but then there's also like the seediness of it being this nightclub where we're going to like capture these two young sea creatures and make them into these sexual objects, even though they talk a lot about how young they are. This idea of like things being kiddie and kind of harmless and bright colors, but then they're also being a real danger. And then that also being the way that they treat the girls, that they, I'm just gonna call them the girls, that uh these mermaids, that they they treat them like kids and like children, but then they're also highly sexualized and also very dangerous.

There's a lot to be said about the way that you sexualize young women in the same way. And, you know, obviously you as an actress, I'm not saying you've maybe experienced this, but like, you know, the trope of like the casting couch or the way that actresses, uh, you know, in the real world, the ones who are not mermaids, which do we have any receipts on who is and who isn't? But um, the way that, you know, pe women, especially in industries like, you know, the performing arts are groomed in this way to uh become these sexual icons, like golden and silver being here. You know, they have to go through this kind of weird sexual rite to get to being like their like pop band that they want to be.

My other thought is the first time I watched this movie, I think I was like, oh my god, I'm having so much fun. This is so cool. And then that was quickly taken away from me at this very beginning when the nightclub manager goes into the dressing room and Chrissia presents them to him. And I actually had very different reactions to this scene the first time I watched it and the second time I watched it. Because, like you said, they look very young, they straight up say to the nightclub manager that they're young. That's kind of the point of the movie is that they are adolescents becoming women. It's so uncomfortable because at first, you know, it's just bizarre because we're seeing that they don't have butt cracks and they don't have vaginas or uh do they have belly buttons?

I don't think they have belly buttons, they have cute abs. Okay. My take. Yeah. So they don't have any of that. So it's this weird thing at first where I was like, oh, okay, this definitely will not be sexual then because they don't have a vagina. And then like a gremlin, dump a little water on them. Pops a vagina, yeah. Vagina appears, and it was just so gross and disturbing to me, and I just didn't know what to do with it. And I was like, oh shit, like, is this about to be like a really dark and icky movie? Because that's not what I wanted it to be. But then the second time I watched this, I was not so focused on what the nightclub manager was doing, but I was focused on what the girls were doing.

Yeah, and I know that it's a little bit of a strange situation because they are young, but they are also predators, like you just said. If you think about like the siren in mythology, like they sing to men to pull them in and kill them and consume them. And so if you look at what Gold and Silver are doing in this scene, they're like all smiley, giggly, like, come on, you know, tickle my little mermaid slit. And it's such a bizarre contrast of what you feel should be wrong, yeah, and what you're seeing maybe not presented as wrong. It's weird. Yeah, it's definitely, I mean, it's an uncomfortable situation. And I think it's okay to say that clearly the way that the nightclub manager is treating them is not something respectful, and we're not like excited about that, but that the girls also wanted to be pulled onto the shore, you know, that they were wait, Maria Bailey.

Did I say that the wrong way? But no, no, I it makes I just like I can't get Ariel out of my head. No, just she just wants to be part of the world so bad. Yeah. But actually, like that was another thing that I wrote down was that the this kind of like opposing idea that the siren lures the sailors to their death, but then also in The Little Mermaid, that they're being lured to their death, or one of them is because she's going to fall in love with this man. And so there's like that there's an equal opportunity for luring, that there's like a push and pull there. I know that sounds silly, but like the luring?

Luring. Um, but yeah, like that they one draws the other and the other draws in a different way, that there's a trap for them, and there's they set a trap, but they also become trapped as well. And that both of those are negative. You know, the siren is a monster because she is this like predatory feared woman, yeah. And the idea of male storytelling, storytelling, and like fearing women female sexuality, yeah, but then on the flip side, looking at like the Disney Little Mermaid and how Ariel's drive in life and giving up her identity is to be with the prince. Yeah. And so it's this weird contrast of like who's the winner in this? You know, these women killing men or these men destroying women by not reciprocating their air quotes obsession.

Yeah, and that's I mean, that's I'm so glad that they had two mermaids so that they could explore like this difference of like them being on either side of that. So you have the one who really does not seem to have any real interest in humans besides like her own amusement. And then the other one, oh, honestly, the scene that felt the most sinister to me was when I always when I switch their names, whenever Silver is going to this like front desk area, and there's this woman that we only see the one time, I think, smoking at the desk, and she offers her a cigarette and she's like, I don't know how to smoke, I've never smoked before.

And then she it was like this real odd corruption scene where she's like teaching her how to smoke, and then and like how it's gonna ruin her voice, and then obviously later she actually loses her voice. But the part that just like really got me was her, I think the line she says something like, You want a real pussy, don't you? And I was like, Oh, because it it really is like, and she does, like she wants to because you know we look at these movies and we're like, why the hell wouldn't you want to be a mermaid? Like, who doesn't want to be a mermaid? Stupid. That all she wants is to have oh, just like a yeah.

It is really fascinating to me that so we have this creepy, kind of a salty scene in the beginning where they sprinkle the water on them and like force them to turn into mermaids and have this like creepy moment where he touches the little tail slit. And also, I just wrote I just noticed I wrote down a very telling line from that scene where the nightclub manager says, Are you sure they won't bite? And he says, They're still young. Right. That I can think of at this moment, there's not another part of the movie that feels very rapey. The sexual encounters from then on seem to be on the girls' terms. Which we can get into more of those sexual encounters later because there's one that is super weird.

Uh well, there's multiple that are super weird. But the other thing that I wanted to say about that is just uh not to get too like nerdy about it, but I've always been really interested just in the fact because I've never seen anything about a mermaid or a sea creature that doesn't that isn't in some way sexualized. They're just a very sexualized species. And we're a bunch of perverts. Justice for mermaids. Yeah, exactly. But it but so two things. A, it made me wonder about the gender politics of being a mermaid, because maybe it doesn't mean the same thing. Like the idea of sex for a mermaid is not such a precious thing the way that we look at it.

That just the way that the the word mermaid feels troubling to me in certain ways because having maid in there, that there's like a lot of meaning in that, that a maid is a young virgin, a maid is a female servant. You know, there's just a lot to unpack, just in that. Yeah, there's no mermatron. Yeah, you're yeah, exactly. Like a mermaid is always this like young, sexy creature. Yeah, and actually, we do meet a merman in this movie, uh, which I was very confused by the first time I watched it. But we meet Triton, unlike the Disney version. I had to, I had to do research because, like I said, I was trying to think too hard about this movie before watching it.

But unlike the Disney movie, Triton is not their father. I was like, oh my god, what are the odds that they just run into their dad here? You must have had him when he was young. I know. Well, so apparently men have horns, first of all, because a fisherman ripped one of his out and he ripped the other out himself. But you will notice, and I didn't notice the first time, when they're singing at his gig, he has a scar across his stomach. Oh, I didn't notice that. Yeah, so Triton has traded his le his tail for legs, a little weenie, if we assume. I wonder what the uh merman version of a weenie looks like.

If the mermaid one is just like, well, it is strange to think about, or not strange, but compelling to think about the kind of double standard that you know, when Silver is told that giving away her tail will take her voice as well, she says Triton still has his voice. You know, that's just an urban legend. So apparently it is just the women who have to give up their voices for their for their vaginas. Although I do think, I mean, I assume that there probably is a double standard there, but his style of music is much less beautiful and a lot less focused on like a kind of production. Yeah. So it makes me wonder if like maybe that harsher sound has some kind of like Yeah, maybe he's built it up because when Silver has her tail removed, she cannot speak at all.

Right. She's completely mute. So I mean, yeah, maybe Triton has because he also has a very low rumbling voice when he speaks. So maybe he has like retrained his vocals. Well, and maybe that same woman at the front desk offered him cigarettes when he was a young Triton and he's been smoking those the whole time. I don't think I love this. I don't think this movie gives a shit if I like it. Not concerned. It reminds me, I had a friend one time write this really bizarre play, and I was in a group critiquing it, and one of the other people in the critique said, you know, this is one of those things where most plays try to be a hundred people's tenth favorite thing, but this will be ten people's favorite thing.

Basically saying, like, this is not mainstream at all. People will not think it's okay, but if they love it, they're really gonna love it. And that's kind of how I feel about this movie. Yeah, and I saw so many uh criticisms of this film. Again, it's weird from all of the negative ones are from audiences. When I saw critical ones, I mean, not to like, you know, put people on pedestals, but all the critical ones, even if they were negative, were like, this is trying something really interesting. Yeah, it is big thing. There were audience ones that were just like, this movie's trying so hard to be weird that it's stupid. And it's like, no, I don't think this movie's trying at all.

I think it's just weird. I think it is succeeding on every level of weirdness. But anyway, so so when I was watching it, my only moment where I was like, eh, maybe I could add like a slight criticism here, but not really. Is that the idea is that Triton introduces this idea of oh, well, you know that if she falls in love with this guy and he marries someone. She's gonna turn into seed foam unless she eats him before daybreak. Or whatever. I I think he gives all of those details. And I was like, I bet that's gonna matter. On that same thread, something that I love about this movie is the sisterhood between the mermaids, sisterhood between the park maid and the Rachel Maid.

Are you golden or are you silver? Who's golden? Who's silver? Oh, I'm golden. No. Listen, there's no way about it. I'm not giving up my tail. I do not want a real pussy. I want a tail. See, I'm getting so sidetracked because this movie's so exciting. There's so many cool things to talk about. Because, like you said earlier, who wouldn't want the tail? Something about the mermaids that is so interesting to me. They are, like we said, predatory, but also they clearly think that they're both the shit. There is a scene where Silver is having a rough day, and she sits at the bar with a man, and she says, I know you want a fishtail.

And the man says, No, I don't. There's something, and this is a thought that I have not thought through very much that I don't know what it means, but there's something about them thinking that everybody wants what they have, but really there's nothing desirable about what they have. There's something I think probably there about passing into their womanhood, passing from maybe this like newbile sexy booby mermaid to what we see is Chrissia, who is envious of the mermaids. And maybe that's something that's being said in this scene is that man does not want what they're passing into, but maybe wants what they were. I don't know. I'm trying, I'm just throwing the ideas at something that I haven't thought through.

No, if uh you're I think you're onto something there because we have two examples besides that. One is that, you know, we just talked about how sexualized these creatures are, but that there's some there is some kind of hesitance about actually having sex with them because uh the bass player, I forgot his name, Miatek. Uh Miatech. Miatech says to her when they have this uh the scene like equally is awesome and also is really tragic and heartbreaking. But the scene where she wants to have sex with him for the first time and he basically says no, but then they do anyway, and have a really great number together. Yeah. He says to her, he says, To me, you'll always be a fish, an animal.

Wait, so do you think that in that scene they have sex? It looks to me like they do sexual things, but I specifically noticed that I think she does all of the pleasuring. I think you're probably right about that. That seems for brand for me, a tech. Yeah, I think that it is not a reciprocated sexual encounter, and there's a specific moment, I think, where their heads are at an equal level, and then she kind of lowers down. Well, and this was not long after that cameo of the nightclub singer's BJ. Yes, and also in the same uh sequence as Golden's sexual encounter on the beach where she rips a man's heart out. Right. So there's a lot being said in this moment about the different relationships to sex that Silver, Golden, and Chrissia are having, where Chrissya is kind of the epitome of the washed-up nightclub.

Like the night, the the CD backstage of the nightclub is Chrissia. And the glamorous, seductive front of house where the performance are having are Silver and Golden. And then there's also a divide between Silver and Golden, where Silver is desiring this kind of soulmate love, like Ariel in The Little Mermaid, but then Golden is kind of out for her own adventure, like you were saying, her amusement, and part of that is her sexual encounter encounters with men, where she is literally ripping their hearts out. Yeah. Well, and who knows? Because we don't really know the rules of this world, but it seems that mermaids are not unheard of, they're just maybe rare. That is the weirdest thing about this movie is the first time they plop open their tails on the stage in that big like martini glass, and everybody's like, ah, bravo.

And I would have been like, What the fuck? I know I would have been like, Well, yeah. So clearly, like, there's some kind of reputation here for like sea creatures existing, but maybe being super rare. And so I wonder too if that factored into this idea about men, because like you pointed out that the manager is like, will they bite? And he's like, I don't think so, they're still young. So maybe that is feeding into Miatek's resistance to her, that he's like fascinated by her and likes her attention, but that he's never gonna see her as anything more than that. And I'm gonna assume here that the man that Golden takes to the car, I don't think he knows that she's a mermaid, does he?

I'm not sure. I I assumed no, and that maybe he wouldn't have gone with her if he had known. Like that there would be some sense of danger there. And anyway, and then but the third example that I was thinking about was uh with Triton, because we talked about like who wouldn't want to be a mermaid, he didn't want to be a sea creature anymore and willingly gives up his tail. Yeah. I mean, well, as Sebastian says in The Little Mermaid, the seaweed is always greener in somebody else's lake. Unless you're golden and then you're like, I'm gonna have it all. Oh, I know. Golden is who we should all strive to be, honestly. Honestly, like she's just like making lemonade at all moments.

She's still gloomy as hell. Oh my god, I know. And that also reminds me of uh another lyric I had written down here. Where'd it go? Oh, in that incredible slow-mo green, like dance club jam that they have, where all the people are like grabbing at them and they're singing in slow motion. The lyric says holy moly. I don't I would like to know how to say holy moly in Polish. I guess I can find out. But they say, holy moly, bitter tastes can be delicious, so you're lonely. Now I know that love is vicious. Oh, says so much about this movie. I know. I was I was kind of blown away by the simplicity and kind of the dry humor of the lyrics.

Yeah. But that they could say so much and so little. Yeah, I completely agree with that. Alright, so we have completely just like gone off the rails and been insane in this conversation. There are two scenes specifically I want to make sure that we hit. The first one is, I think, very telling about what we were just talking about with the relationship between viewing fit the femininity, and like I said, the director is a woman. She wanted to say something about the difference in how you view women at different stages in maturity. Yeah. The scene that we mentioned earlier when we were discussing whether or not the band is a family, when the drummer and Chrissy are having sex, and she is having a little dream about the mermaids sucking the teeth, and she has a mermaid tale herself.

Yes. I think that's very telling to the conversation we were just having. That is one of like the standout images from the entire thing for me. Because I really I think that Chrissy, I think she's more central to this movie than it seems at first. And I don't know, she's kind of hard to talk about because she is she's like you said, she's between the two worlds where she's part of what's exploiting the mermaids, but she's also caring about them and she's jealous of them, but she's not cruel to them if we can forget about the fact that they get dumped off the bridge. But in a very bizarre sequence, that she didn't punch them. So I don't know, it's like she's she's very much stuck in the middle of this, and with the breastfeeding bit, it's just what I wonder there is like what's actually happening.

So it could be that she feels like I have so much to give these two young girls, and there's this kind of like weird sexual mom thing going on. But it also could be that she's like some kind of like she's taking it, could be like almost the opposite of that, that she's not giving to them, but that they would be giving to her in that case, and like giving some of their youth to her. Yeah, I was feeling a little bit like this clash of envy. She wants what they have because, like I said, she's kind of the washed-up singer, like she's the singer that's been there, that people are kind of like seeing it.

She's still fabulous, though. She's still fabulous. I'm not saying she's not, but I think she's envious of not only the mermaid's novelty, their newness, but also their glamour. And so she's in this scene having sex and fantasizing at the same time about being a mermaid. Yeah. I was seeing this as partially envy, yeah, but partially that she wants to have the credit for giving silver and golden to the people. Right. Part of envy is also admiration, and she has both for them, and she does have a kind of nurturing role, and she is the perfect way to bridge their youth and their beauty with this seedy masculine nastiness. And it's fascinating to me that she's like her her character has both femininity and the kind of like toxic masculinity, if you will.

Now, speaking of older women, I would like to discuss the policewoman because I am very I'm still confused by this part. Yes, because this part is perhaps my favorite part of the movie. I think it is so beautiful and so interesting, but at the same time, I have no idea what's happening. Uh, something that I read from Agnieszka Smokzinska is that the mermaids, and this seemed to be a thought that was not very close to her central line of theme in the movie, but she said that the mermaids partially represent the immigrant, and how in Poland, America is this ideal, and the mermaids say, maybe we'll stop here in Warsaw on the way to America. And part of the lyrics of the policewoman song is that she will take her to Disneyland.

I don't know, again, this is another idea that I'm trying to toss around that I don't exactly have the answer to, but these women trying to achieve an ideal that they know that they won't, along with this idea of the young maturing plus the older already matured, and acceptance, and I'm not quite sure what's going on here because it seems that maybe in the end, I do not think that Golden kills her, because I think we see her again on TV uh doing a news report, but that she's perhaps like imposed her psychic will on the policewoman on submission. Yeah, I'm not quite sure, but that's what I was seeing here because later on TV, when the policewoman, I'm assuming the policewoman gives a little statement to the news, she makes no mention of beasts or perhaps mermaids at a club that might be responsible for this.

And I'm not quite sure. And actually, there is an alternate ending to the movie that is very much the same as the ending there, but the one difference is that after Golden rips the throat out of Miatak, the policewoman shoots her before she stumbles off of the boat. Interesting. Yeah, and so I there's this weird just clash in this one scene of desire and danger and something you're not supposed to do. Like a taboo or yeah, and taboo. Yeah, I'm not quite sure. This scene is so Yeah, there's a lot of it's another onion that we just gotta like really dig into. Um, but there are a few onions in this movie, like this and the the overdose scene.

Oh yeah. There are a few parts of this movie where I'm like, I don't at all understand what's going on here, but I want to so badly. I know it's all just that's what I'm saying. It's just a dream logic. When you have a dream, you just gotta roll with it, and then later you gotta be like, how did it make me feel? I'm not sure about this policewoman. And part of me, like as I was watching it, was not even sure that I trusted that she was a policewoman. It seems like she knew what was going on. But what you said that is definitely true is this weird, very, very close relationship between the sex and the danger, that it what is tempting is also what you know could hurt you.

That and so I in some ways I don't exactly know how love fits into this movie because I'm never really sure. I'm not convinced that Silver is actually in love with Miatech. It's just that she wants to have this other life and wants him to love her, and that she has this desire that is going to kill her. And this policewoman has a desire that is very much putting herself in danger, but also it puts Golden in danger too. That they and maybe that's just another comment about sex, like we talked about earlier, that horror is about vulnerability, and there's a mutual vulnerability when people decide to do that together. The policewoman pulls a gun on her.

Right. Oh, yeah, I forgot about that. That was fucking nuts. Sometimes with monster movies or alien movies or some of these things, I get kind of frustrated when the other is all powerful, so it's like nothing can really destroy it or nothing can really hurt it, and it has to like figure out how to just be this all-powerful thing. And in this, I like that the mermaids are very, very powerful, but also very, very vulnerable. Yeah, and you've also got my cogs turning in a way that will relate to the final wedding sequence of the movie. I think that the line that this movie, at least to me, is drawing is the difference between love and submission.

Yeah. Ooh. Thank you. It's not that, it's not about Silver loving Miatech, and it's not about Golden being a skank. Right. It's more about Silver sacrificing her life and identity for Mia Tech, and Golden not being willing to sacrifice her tail. First of all, the scene where Silver is having the tail transplant, first of all, has to be mentioned because it is incredible. Yes, it is insane. Or just the centerpiece of this movie has to be second only to sucking the tea of Chrissy. I need to see the sequel to this movie where we see that other blonde girl on the table. Becoming a mermaid. Becoming a mermaid. Can you imagine? I have a few questions for you later about some things that I saw these actresses saying about their method as an actress in this movie.

But can you imagine getting a role and being like, all we need is for you to just lay naked on this slab and just like wish that you were a mermaid? I would say I do that every morning. Everyone I used to live in Los Angeles and I used to see breakdowns for roles. And my favorite one that I ever saw just said female boobs. And the description said, um, just need a shot of naked boobs. Your face will not be shown, non-union, unpaid. Non-union, unpaid. Man. Part of me, if it had been paid, part of me would have been like, my face isn't in it, sure, take my boobs. Yeah, because if your face isn't in it, you're not getting exposure.

And if you're not getting paid, what's the point? No point. You're just doing someone a favor, a very, very generous favor. I know. And what who's gonna see your boobs and be like, oh my god, I saw that movie? Whenever you're trying to leverage unpaid, you say, like, oh, well, you can put this in your reel. And uh, I don't think that that's much to sell in that case, unless you have very nice boobies and you want that in your reel. And then I support that and you should do it. And I hope that that happened for that actress. But actually, I I would be really interested, not that this was a big opportunity for that actress necessarily, but it does kind of remind me of the autopsy of Jane Doe, and that they were very specific.

And I read a little bit of maybe we talked about this, but I read about them hiring that actress and it being very important that she was like a very physically capable actress because she had no lines and it was just about her dead body. I thought it was really fascinating, and I was like, I don't look down on this role at all. I think that was probably really challenging. Yeah. I'm sorry, I know that's really off topic. It's just um, but I I think it does connect back to Golden and Silver because they're topless for at least half of the movie. Oh, yeah. And then we have this um actress in the beginning of the movie who's a dancer and has maybe the most exciting topless reveal I've ever seen.

I really enjoy that. I I don't think that that's just there because it's this burlesque dance, like that there's also something about the mermaids are naked, but to them, that's not that's not them being naked. They're more naked when they're wearing clothes and not having their tail. But also not having vaginas, it's like they're making a differentiation between nudity and sex. Yeah. And it's interesting that the men at the club see them as so sexual when in fact they have absolutely no sex to offer them. But it's like you as a as the audience member can fill in the gap of what you don't see. So you know, like, oh, I see more pussy because I know that's where the real pussy would go.

And I'm only saying pussy because we already talked about it in the other scene. That's normally what I call it. I I have a thought. We I was about to relate the final scene of this movie with the original Hans Christian Andersen tale. Okay. So that story, as with most Disney movies, is very different from the Disney movie. Yes. The idea in this movie, or in the Hans Christian Andersen tale, is the same that there's a mermaid who wants to be a human and she sees a prince and falls in love with him. But what's different in this story is that in order for her to go to the surface, she sees the sea witch and she has to trade her voice for her legs.

But the process of getting her legs will be incredibly painful. And every time she walks, it will feel like she's walking on knives. That is a piece of the story. But she will be a beautiful dancer, it will just be painful. And I think that that has an interesting crossover with the actual surgical procedure of Silver having to give up her legs here, that she's having to sacrifice a lot, not only her identity as a mermaid, but so much like physical pain for her to be with Miatek, who ultimately is still grossed out by her scar. Which I'm like, come on, man, you didn't think that would happen when you saw that scar. Like, clearly, she needs at least like a few more months.

Yeah, to heal. Just wait. You can wait a little bit. Well, the other big piece of the story is that actually it's very similar to this movie in a lot of ways, in that she has to convince the prince to marry her, and if he doesn't, then she'll turn into sea foam. And that if she if he does marry someone else, but she wants to survive, she has to kill him and let his blood pour onto her feet so that she can transform back into a mermaid. That's the only way for her to become a mermaid again in the Hans Christian Anderson tale, is for his blood to pour over her feet. The big difference here is that she does in fact turn into foam, but in the end, it's a happy ending because her s a big piece of this is that mermaids only live for 300 years, so short in this story.

But if she were to marry a human, her soul would become immortal because she after she turns into foam, she's done. But human souls live on after death in heaven for eternity. And if she falls in love and marries a man, she shares her soul with him. And so she can also become immortal, like humans, which I think is very telling. That part of the story is omitted from this story, and I think on purpose, because also after the little mermaid in Hans Christian Andersen's tale dies, she is not dead. She becomes a daughter of the air, as I said at the beginning, because her spirit joins kind of a pantheon of other spirits who have said, we have sacrificed so much for the good of the world and humankind that we can also achieve immortality because we have been selfless, just like you have been selfless, sacrificing your legs for this human.

Okay. And that's another piece of this story that was omitted. And Hans Christian Anderson has had said, obviously, these are very old stories, so he's no longer alive. He had said there were a lot of criticisms about his story and about this ending that ultimately she could be uh the little mermaid could be immortal by sacrificing herself for the man and choosing not to kill him in the end. But he said that he thought that her immortal soul was the gift given to her for being ultimately having agency and choosing not to kill him. You are taking the words out of my mouth because where I was going, because I wanted to kind of take the other side of this because we've talked about Silver kind of in a way like she's like we feel bad for her, and she's a little bit of a victim here.

Yeah, I think the easiest read is that she's some wishy-washy love struck down. And I don't think that's fair because she has a lot of agency in this movie, and she makes choices, and then like there are consequences for both of them. She never at any point, like we see Golden feeling gloomy as hell, but we don't really see Silver ever that way. She always seems curious and kind of happy and at peace, and she does feel like a very generous character to me. And I think the fact that she she clearly makes the choice to not kill him. We don't know why she is so generous with her love to him, because he's got great hair, but ultimately he doesn't seem like a great boyfriend.

But that's not why you love someone. Like she we don't know why she loves him, we just know that she does, and we trust that she does. And even though like her biggest desire was to be loved back, she doesn't seem to be heartbroken that he is married to somebody else. She seems to be at peace with it. At least that was my reading of it, watching it. As I thought, oh, well, she's gonna be devastated at this wedding, and she doesn't look devastated. And she has this opportunity and she's dancing with him, and it's weird. She thinks about it, and then she doesn't. Yeah, and the movie is very intentional in having her like bear her fangs over his shoulder, so that one dramatic tension for us to wonder if she will bite him, but two, that she knows that biting him will or eating him, killing him will preserve her life.

But is that a life that she wants to live? She does not want to like she would not have a fulfilled life knowing that she killed the person that she loves and robbed him of a life of happiness, which she can only assume is what he would have. Now, Golden goes and fucks that up and is like, I'm just gonna take a poo all over your memory by killing him anyway. Well, I also think that's a really beautiful moment, too, because of this idea that, you know, we've been talking so much about sex and women and men and power, but ultimately their sisterhood is the final idea of the movie is that the loss of silver is Golden's Golden's first and only breaking point in this movie.

Yeah, and she's going to, yes, clearly, Silver was like, I want Miatech to live. And Golden was like, What? But that Golden is like, this is something that's been taken away from me that ultimately is more important than everything else that I've experienced in this movie. Yeah, and I'm not mad at her for doing it. I can't even say that I wouldn't do the same thing in her position. Who's to say? But I love when it happens that there's an a counterpart to the romantic love in a movie for a love that isn't romantic. That the the love of Golden's life is her sister Silver. Speaking of the love between Golden and Silver, I don't know.

If I were gonna look at this in like an even more weird way, I would say that I think in some ways that they are that they're really like one person, and it's just the two sides that exist of like that the one is the person who's generous with their love, and the other person is the one who's going to protect themselves at all costs. I like seeing those things play against each other because I think that's something that we do all the time as human beings. So, anyway, that's what I think about golden and silver, those two precious metal sisters. I love that. That was a real mic drop moment. Thank you. Well, you know, this has been such a scattered conversation, but a good one.

I do have a few extra things that I would like to point out real fast. I do want to, I know we've hit on most of this before, but I do want to point on the thread. When the sisters emerge from the water, they are completely oblivious to our culture. We're speaking from an American perspective, but from what I gather from the documentaries and the interviews I saw with Smoksinska, it seems she's on the same wavelength that I am. They think that they are all powerful and all predatory, and they've entered into a male-dominant society. And they are unaware of how men can prey on women in our world. And there's just this interesting thread how the patriarchy imposes itself on silver and golden throughout the movie that affects their choices.

And I have a quote here from Smoksinska that says, Most important of all, your first sexual encounter, which is often disappointing, but it's a moment of passage from one world to another. Our mermaids come from the water and want to enter the world of the humans. So she has to become a woman and go through a rite of initiation. And those rites involve pain and the loss of your world and your previous identity. Beautiful. And my other thought, you said earlier that you're not very familiar with Polish culture. I'm not. Well, this movie actually initially got some pushback because in the 80s, uh, which is when this film takes place, around 1983 specifically. Uh-huh. In the 80s, Poland was in a pretty bad state because they were under the oppressive oppressive rule of the Soviet Union post-World War II.

And the pushback that they had initially was people saying that this was such a colorful, happy, glamorous movie when the world of Poland in the early 1980s was actually very bleak and dark and gray. And I thought it was interesting that Smoksinska and Ballesto both said that they were children in the 80s and they wanted this film to have kind of a childish spirit because that's what they remember of Poland in the 80s. As Americans, it's easy for us to be to impose our own context onto this film. And even going back to earlier when I said that the mermaids specifically are interested in traveling to America, that Poland is not represented as any sort of utopia here.

It is, like you said, just a means for the mermaids to kind of entertain themselves because they've found this interesting facet of Polish culture that they want to kind of exploit before going back to America. And then they are they kind of find themselves twisted in its web a little bit more than expected. More like twisted in its net, like a bitch. Um, no, I think that's really interesting. And to kind of, I don't know, glue that last point before to this one about the setting. Because I, when I was watching this at first, I didn't think of it as being set in a specific time. Honestly, I mean I knew that the music felt like 80s music, but you know, we were in a nightclub and I just thought like that's the kind of music it is.

It wasn't really until we got to the wedding that I was in his hair, honestly. That I was like, oh, I I think maybe we're actually in the 80s. But but either way, like I didn't really think of it as being like a very specific crucial year or moment in time. Yeah, which I think is a testament to the film's achievement as being timeless, but also somewhat locationless because they do talk about Warsaw and they talk about Poland, but I think it is more universal. However, I thought this was really interesting. The film, the restaurant that it's filmed in was a real place called the Adria, which was apparently a historic kind of iconic location that is now closed in Warsaw.

Yeah, it's no we you can no longer go, uh, from what I know. But Smoksinska said that it kind of has a large role in the kind of nightlife culture of Warsaw. And so she really wanted to use this location, and it was still completely intact when they got there. She said the insurance company let them into the location. No one had moved in, and all of like the furniture was still there. And so they were like, let's use this sweet place, which is actually the same club that the Balatti e Romanza sisters' parents performed in when they were children. That is nuts. So full circle. That is full circle, but I like what you said about the makers of the movie being children of the 80s, so that they wouldn't have they wouldn't have understood the dark context of the time that they were growing up in.

To them, it would have seemed bubblegum. And I mean, it's like what we were talking about at the very first of the conversation, that because you know, we're watching this movie, we're seeing it in this context, it is from their point of view. And and actually, now that we're talking about it, that's really interesting because the very first shot that we see of the guy smoking on the beach feels very dark and a little bit gritty. And then as soon as we get in the nightclub, everything is bright and beautiful and fun. I think that's really interesting that we're seeing it the way that they would see it. And so we talked about like how strange it is that there doesn't seem to be more like that kind of predatory element doesn't get as dark and creepy as it could.

And maybe that if we were seeing a more objective version of this movie, we would see a lot more of that seediness and that creepiness and more predatory behavior that maybe just doesn't register on the young mermaids because they're we're seeing it through this kind of childlike perspective. And that that also speaks to like I love that we you talked about the police woman saying that she'll take her to Disneyland, and that's such a like that's something that you would say to a child, but this is also someone that she's having a sexual experience with, and so it's like they're both, they're treated like children, they're treated like sexual creatures, and they're somehow both. And uh, I also think that feeding into that, it is now June, which is Pride Month.

And this movie I think has a very beautiful stance on sexuality because ultimately it's not a factor. These fish, mermaids, are kind of sexual beings that exist to their own identity and their own desires and their own being, and they don't have any of our gross culture telling them they need labels. There is a very hot lesbian scene, and the men that the sisters rip apart later in the film, gay men. Yeah. So there we go. Pride month. It begins now. Yeah. I mean, when you're a mermaid, like you don't care whether you're murdering a straight person or a gay person, you just murder the person you see. You're not seeing that. It's what we call equality.

Uh, also, I think we would be mistaken if we did not point out that there is a bit of a sexual chemistry between the sisters and they do have a big tonguey kiss. Which is strange, but you know who am I to tell the mermaids how to act? Exactly. I don't know what it means to be a sister and a mermaid. So I'm not gonna say, I'm not gonna take a stance there. I did have a couple of questions before we wrap up for you as an actress. Yes. In the documentary, when they were talking to actress Marta Mazurek, who plays Silver, she talked about a few exercises that they would go through to get into character.

And I was wondering if you could kind of break down some of these experiences and demystify them for me. Demystify. Apparently, uh, and Smoksinska talks about this too. There were exercises that they wanted to do with the girls to make sure that they were comfortable being naked. Okay. And I was wondering what kind of exercise would you be doing to feel comfortable naked? Well, I have not been asked to do any of those exercises. So I I don't know, that's an interesting question. But I mean, it's it's become to take it in the, I guess, one direction, it's become a more common practice in the film and theater industry to use intimacy directors, um, which is a very close cousin of the fight choreographer, and a lot of people do both.

And that person just comes onto the set and is there to be a resource for the actors so that they at any point, because you know, sometimes as an actor with a power dynamic with a director, you might not, or a producer, you might not necessarily feel comfortable saying, like, hey, I know in my contract it says I'm gonna be topless here, but I am so uncomfortable and it's getting in the way of my performance. Like that's a that might be a hard thing to say. So you bring someone onto the set that you can absolutely say that to, and that person is gonna be your advocate, but then also give you some practical things like here's how we're gonna position our bodies, and here's, you know, what we're gonna put on our bodies as like latex or whatever.

Yeah, and I also wondered if these exercises had to deal with how young the actresses were. I don't know exactly how old they were, but apparently they took a year and a half casting this film, and they had kind of open auditions and they saw over 2,000 women and before settling on. But the thing that makes them think they were extremely young is Mikolina Olzanska, Golden, says that she they were looking specifically for teen girls, and that she didn't think she would be able to get the part because she was 20. She forced her way into the audition and ended up getting the role. So that makes me think that Marta, who was cast as silver before Golden was, is younger than 20.

Well, she and she does look very, very young. And I I think that I think that the movie maybe some people disagree with this, but I think it does a pretty good job of respecting their bodies. The other thing that Marta pointed out is that they had a coach. Somebody who she said gave them exercises and lessons in how to move like a mermaid, how uh you might move if you once had a very heavy 10-foot being and now have a very shorter five-foot being, how someone might move if they were a sea creature for, you know, I'm assuming between 16 and 19 years, and now they're on land. Um, how much did they pay this person and how do they know?

Because I think they were ripped off. No, no. I hard disagree because I think that a movement coach is invaluable to the actor. But how would the movement coach know these things? They've never been a mermaid. Of course they haven't been a mermaid, but they like you said, like they've already come up with a physical vocabulary based on the idea that the um tail is like an additional five feet to their body or however long, and that that's gonna weigh this much. How is that going to like you can once you start putting those kinds of details on it, then you can say, okay, well, I think this might affect your body that way. Or for me, watching that first scene when they're pointing out that they don't have any genitalia, that it's like, oh, well, you're gonna sit differently if you don't have a giant on this like couch.

So I'm just gonna sit here for just a second and pitch myself for the American remake of this movie because there are very few movies. I don't get that jealous when I see like good movies. I'm not like, oh man, I wish I'd been in that. Most of the time I just love the movie. But every now and then I see a movie and I'm like, God damn it, that was made for me. Man, you'll finally have your moment for your boobs to be on screen. Yeah, exactly. And I but they will be in context with my whole it will say the breakdown will say female boobs with face. Oh, well, you know, that actually shed some light because that does make sense.

And those tails were not completely CGI, they had some bells and whistles added on CGI, but they were six feet prosthetics that the women wore, and apparently they wore they weighed like 60 pounds, and men had to carry them around set while they wore the tails. I again, another reason why this would be such a princess role to film, carry me. The scene where Golden has the heart in her mouth and she's crawling into the ocean. You can see the weight of that tail because she is having to physically, muscularly pull herself along the beach, but also her tail has this beautiful slither to it. Yeah, I actually call me crazy, but I found that very moving.

Yeah, I loved all of the mermaid stuff. The the gore effects were not great. They were fine. There were some very less than smooth ways that they got around not showing gore in this movie. You know, the one that sticks out to me, but I still like it because it fits in with this whole like dreamy thing, is him double fist punching both of them. Yeah, that was great. But then, like her biting his finger off, there is a very jarring cut in that scene that goes from her mouth on the finger to her mouth not on the finger. Maybe I I'm interested in your take on this. Any movie, it does not matter how gory it is, how disgusting it is, how much it turns your stomach.

Nothing turns my stomach more than seeing a needle poke somebody in a movie. It's gross. We had a big nasty needle in this one, and I just I cringe every time. I'm holding my arm right now. I don't even have a thing with needles. It's just seeing it in movies. I have a thing with needles, I hate them. But on that note, let's get to our wrap-up questions. On that note, shut up. There are not that many murders in this movie, unfortunately. So I would like to change most memorable murder to what is your most memorable musical number? Oh. There are so many in this movie. I know. Now I'm feeling pressure. Okay. I'll go first then, so you can think.

You're gonna take mine. Well, it's kind of a hard it's between two. I love the first, the homesick number that Golden sings when the apartment turns blue and she's just been looking at that cheap little cycling uh ocean frame thing in the bathroom. That is beautiful. I love the song in that scene and how it feeds directly then into a more upbeat number that's more exciting. I love that. But I think the policewoman takes the cake. I love the policewoman. It is sexy, it is hot, it is funny and campy. It is that I think is kind of the epitome of this movie in one scene. Completely nonsensical and bizarre. I love that scene. Also, the policewoman's full body fishnet suit is something I would also like to own.

Yeah, I don't disagree with that. Because at first when she's wearing it over her underwear, I was like, hmm, that's pretty hot. But then when she's wearing it with no underwear underneath, one, how'd she change? Two, hot. Yeah. Like uh this is not anything about her body, but just like imagining myself wearing that and like my like skin pressing through like a sausage. Hilarious. Yeah, taking that off, like you would have just like imprints. You would look like a mermaid, you'd have scales. Maybe that's the point. Oh my god, wait, that is a whole new layer to that scene I never thought about. Thank you. Uh gosh, this is hard. I I'm just gonna like do a couple, I'm gonna do a highlight reel because I really I liked the first time that there's a musical number that happens in the quote real world, which I think because I'm not I'm not counting the first scene.

I think when they're like on the escalator at the mall. Oh, so good. I loved that. Then like seeing the town and being like, what is this new world? It was so awesome. I loved it. Yeah, and that's like the that's the big musical number, musical of this. I saw that the director was really interested in playing with different genres and exploring different uh types of musical. Because like I said earlier, there were not, she said many Polish musical. Yeah, there were not many guides for them. So she wanted to really explore. And that was the big musical theater one. Yeah, that and I well, obviously, so I loved that. But it was so choreographed, and I always love whenever it's like you go from a world that feels somewhat naturalistic to completely unrealistic.

And this one went from unrealistic to even more unrealistic. Yeah. So love that. But I still think, and I'm gonna steal your answer, but take it in a different direction with the I'm so blue number. I would like for you to just ruminate on these lyrics as Rachel reveals the rest of her explainer because I'm sad and so are you. Now he's sad because we're sad too. You're all sad and they're all sad. We're all gloomy as hell. I, first of all, as we've discussed, love the weirdness and bluntness of those lyrics. So I really enjoyed that scene because it was the first time that we've seen because I don't know that Silver ever sings by herself, but that's the first time we see Golden singing.

Silver does have somewhat of a solo when her tail is being removed, and then she has that beautiful like gasp of her losing her voice and the blood spewing on her, but Golden does respond in the same song, they just don't sing at the same time. Yeah. So that but that's the first time that we see one of them singing without the other, and which I thought was interesting because Golden has the lower voice, and so she's always doing the harmony, so it was nice hearing her sing the melody. And it was a very mournful song. When they're it's interesting that when they're not singing together, it is sadness. Yeah, exactly. Um, yeah, and she says at the end, she's like, I don't sing solo.

Beautiful. So you're right. Like she when she's singing by herself, it's because she's mourning. But then the fact that the reprise of Gloomy as Hell is at the wedding, and you have the bride and the groom singing that to each other, and Silver is just looking on, being like, who knows what she's thinking? That was nuts. And everyone's kind of entered a state of sadness because then the drummer and Chrystia are also having a weird, like, we're here together, obviously, still emotions, but like, uh, what do we do? Yeah. And I just, yeah, like when you bring that many people together for an occasion, there's gonna be some complicated feelings. I just thought that that was a really interesting moment.

And it's also just a good dramatic device anytime that there is a wedding, for there to be some kind of like sadness or gloominess. If we're talking about like AP English one juxtaposition, like that is gonna win every time. You know, I would say, unless you're a Miatech stan, I would say probably every emotion in that wedding is gloomy. Miatech is the only happy participant in that wedding. I don't know. His his bride seemed okay. Yeah, they're the only happy ones. Now, on a scary scale from one to five, how would you rate the lure? One. Yeah, I would agree. Like I said, this movie kind of jumps between genres, and I do think that it counts as a horror movie.

I really do. I think that not only is there the those gory, more thrilling moments, but also just kind of the grotesqueness and the tension, not only psychologically but physically in this movie, uh, contributes to a horrific experience, even if it's lending itself to romance and comedy and fantasy and all those other things. Yeah, honestly, it's just like scary that it worked. Would you give the lure a smash or a slash? Yeah, of course I give it a smash. Are you kidding me? Me too. This movie ruled, it knocked my socks off. Within the first 10 minutes, I was texting my friend Julianne, who you've heard on this podcast, and I said, This movie slaps, you have to watch it right now.

And then there was that weird scene with the uh club manager, and I was like, oh, actually, I'm pretty uncomfortable. I don't know. And then after that, I was like, wait, no, this rules again. Yeah, and honestly, like, I don't think that I'll ever hear you say slap again and not just picture a mermaid fin slapping on the ground. I'm not prepared to make the lure my favorite scary movie because ultimately I'm reserving that for something that has scares in it. But I will say, this is one of my favorite movie viewing experiences that I have had in quite some time. I'm going to say my favorite scary movie was Drag Me to Hell, but now it is the lure.

I think it's incredible. It's going to enter my rotation of movies that I watch on a rainy day. It's a perfect movie for a rainy day. It's the perfect movie for quarantine. Oh, exactly. Rachel, it has been such a pleasure chatting with you. As I said earlier, a little scattered, but I love the richness that we were able to pull out of this episode or this movie. And this episode may be a million years long, but that's because it deserves a million years with the intelligence and the thoughtfulness that you brought to it. Well, you just made me feel like a million bucks. If you want to feel like a million bucks, just like Rachel, then you will tune in next time when we are reviewing.

Caroline and Ian are back to uh discuss the classic Candyman. And I only say his name once now because I am not yet ready to summon him up from the ether. Say his name five times next Monday when we are discussing Candyman. Oh, that's twice. Uh, and while you're waiting for that, you can head on over to Apple Podcasts and leave us a rating and a review where we would love to hear your feedback. All right, Rachel, if people are curious to see more of you, where can they go? Uh, well, you can go on my Instagram, which is at RachelmontGo. Don't forget that extra A in Rachel. It's spelled R-A-C-H-A-E-L for no good reason. Or, I mean, if you really want to hit up my website, you can.

It's rachelmontgomery.com. Wow. Well, you should definitely head over there because I'm sure it has lots of gems to be found. And um look for her in the American remake of the lure coming soon. Yes. Directed by me. Uh, and you can find me, Parker Heron, on Instagram, Twitter, Letterboxd, and the slasher app at Parker Del Rey. And you can find what's your favorite scary movie on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook at ScaryMoviePod. You can find us on Patreon if you want even more scary movie goodness for just five dollars a month at patreon.com slash scary moviepod. You can also send us an email if you have any feedback, suggestions, or requests at scary moviepod at gmail.com, and you can visit our website for reviews and our calendar at scary moviepod dot com.

Rachel, what a pleasure. I will miss you so much. So good to see your face on this screen. Well, goodbye. Bye.