Saint Maud feat. Julieann Marie

How long have you been doing this? Just do it for a year. What were you doing before? I worked in the hospital. What made you leave? That's what God wanted. What's going on, Katie? Come on, you can tell me. It's your killer host. My name is Parker, your resident horror fanatic. And I'm Julianne, your A24 horror. And welcome to What's your favorite scary movie? What's your favorite scary movie is a horror film podcast where we're on a journey to find our favorite scary movie one at a time. Whether you hate them or love them, join us and discover yours. Spoilers ahead, so plan your movie screening every weekend before the episode release. Hello listeners! Welcome to another fabulous episode of What's Your Favorite Scary Movie?

Today we're gonna do a little bit of time traveling. The very last movie that I saw before the lockdown for the COVID pandemic was a press screening of St. Maud. So we recorded this episode in March of 2020. Yes, you are going to hear us reference the time of year, wonder if maybe the movie can still come out in April, and I hope that you get a laugh out of that considering the year that we did not know that we were in for. I still think that the conversation Julianne and I have is absolutely wonderful and that you're going to love it. And I hope that you loved St. Maud as much as we did. So buckle up, the time machine is about to take off, and enjoy this episode discussing the twists and turns of St.

Maud. So as we're recording this, the movie hasn't come out yet. It will be when it when we release it. But with the coronavirus going around, we're not sure if it's going to be released on time. So but uh yeah, we'll see if that happens, you know? Because we don't have to put it up tomorrow. So and speaking of, I mean, probably a good disclaimer for any listeners that who knows what will be going on in the world when this episode comes out. Right now, St. Maud is scheduled to release. Um, let me check my calendar. I believe it's I believe it's wide April 10th. I think it's limited April 3rd, I believe, as of now.

Yes, you are correct. But um, you might be hearing this episode, I don't know, months later. Might be the zombie apocalypse before that. So we'll see. So yeah, might be a different world that we're in right now. So fingers crossed though. Saint Maud is uh, well, hopefully wide released in 2020. We shall see. It was written and directed by Rose Glass, and this is her feature debut. So congratulations, Rose. Oh my god. I believe her name is Morphid, Morphead Clark. I'm not sure if I'm pronouncing that correctly, but it's a pretty rad name, yeah. Regardless. Incredible actress. She's uh was uh fantastic in this movie, but yeah, she uh as you said, she had a a little bit of a boom.

She's been in Crawl from last year, a little little monster horror, and uh his dark materials and Dracula, which is on BBC and Netflix this year, and the upcoming Amazon Lord of the Rings series. So can we put it? Which I think I'm not a huge Lord of the Rings person. My parents are. Okay. Um, but this actress who plays Maud Morphe has a very like fantasy look to me. So I'm actually pretty excited about that. Yeah, she's very um like elf-like almost, I would say. You know, yeah, she's got that very like angular bone structure. Yeah, yeah. I agree. But um, and then as aside from that, Jennifer Ely, I believe her name is pronounced.

She plays Amanda, the patient. She was in Zero Dark 30 from 2012, the 50 Shades films, which I can't, which I've admittedly have seen uh so few. And I don't know who she was. Do you know who she was in? I don't either. But the thing is, is when I saw that she was in this, I was like, oh, that woman. I've seen her everywhere. And then like she's not in as much as you think she is. Right. These just seem to be the recent highlights. Okay. So I don't know who she plays in Fifty Shades. I too have seen it, and anyone listening, I they have stop lying to us. We've all seen at least one, so don't I don't judge us.

Yeah, I actually have not seen the final one, so I need to catch up. Yeah, no, and then uh Vox Lux from last year, which I haven't seen, but I heard was pretty great. So yeah. The Rotten Tomatoes summary says quote, Saint Maud is a chilling and boldly original vision of faith, madness, and salvation in a fallen world. Maud, a newly devout hospice nurse, becomes obsessed with saving her dying patient's soul, but sinister forces in her own sinful past threaten to put an end to her holy calling. That's what the movie is. I mean, really, it's kind of I mean, it's yeah, it's it's very simplistic, but it's also very big in terms of like what's going on internally with her.

So, yeah, I think that that's a pretty good uh summarization of it. I know. I'm always just jealous of people who can really pack in so much uh meaning in a little space. I agree. The Rotten Tomatoes information I have is as of today that we're recording March 15th, 2020. Um, obviously, since the movie has not been released yet, there's no audience score. Right. But the critic score is currently 93%. So getting some pretty positive press. Hello, it is I, Future Parker, is back to let you know that since we recorded this episode, St. Maud is currently at a 94% on the critic score, and the audience score is a 67%. Now, back to the past to hear more of our discussion of St.

Maud. And their consensus says a brilliantly unsettling blend of body horror and psychological thriller. Saint Maud marks an impressive debut for writer-director Rose Glass. Yes. Yeah, and I actually like that they I feel like Rotten Tomatoes, you know, there's so much give and take with what you trust and what you shouldn't on Rotten Tomatoes. But their consensus is consensus, I don't know what the plural of consensus is. Uh but they seem to be becoming a little more um literate and horror terminology. So, like saying like body horror and psychological thriller, like I think it's a very well, yeah, that's pretty that's pretty on point, which is impressive. So maybe because they're actually uh getting their reviews from horror publications, from horror critics who actually know how to review horror.

Who would have thought? Yeah. Yeah, what happens when you have a larger sample size of people? Yep. Hi, it's me again. Just popping in to let you know that now Julianne herself is a tomato meter approved critic. So the changes continue. All right, so I saw this last week at a press screening. Uh, how did you first see St. Maud? So I had gotten a screener of it from my editor. Um, and I while it was, you know, by myself in the dark, and it it was just as chilling and effective. However, the screener kept crapping out on me a few times. So I do have to see it on the big screen eventually. And I was supposed to go with you, but then with the stupid pandemic that we're currently having, I uh missed it.

But um, but yeah, I do want to see it in a theater with kind of with a you know, with a small crowd, not anything rowdy, but like a reality kind of like when that moment, which we'll talk about later, when that moment happens, oof. I mean, my head chills in the back of my neck, so I definitely would like to be with you know, a bigger kind of see it in a wider scope. So yeah, it's not necessarily like a big like scream at the screen movie, probably not, no, but it does have enough things going on visually that I do think seeing it in theaters was exciting. Um and I think that was my first takeaway after seeing the movie was that it is a very um visual experience, and you know, they dive into some stuff with the artist William Blake, and they're kind of creating their own visual art.

I mean, not that all films aren't art or whatever, you know what I'm saying? But this one, they create their own kind of imagery and um um I I think what with If I can I think what you're getting at, I think what they it's very it's it's literal while also being very fantastical too. Like, like there are scenes where like Maud, like we don't we don't know, we can't differentiate between like reality and fantasy sometimes with because we're in her ho her point of view. So like there are scenes where like she thinks that she's an angel and she grows beautiful white angel wings, and we know that they're not there, but like she thinks they're there, and that's how she views it.

So yeah, and even more literally, I think there are just certain scenes that are like these uh constructed, like um, I'm I'm missing a word here that I'm really looking for, but there are just certain scenes that you could screenshot from this movie and like you know, hang up in a gallery. And I think that there is um like we were saying earlier, like something exciting about seeing that in a theater, and um this movie like earns its its ticket price. Oh, for sure. I think if any of you have seen uh some photos or from the trailer, the elevated the at the point where she's being elevated and levitating to the to the I mean that just it's we've seen it before.

It's been done many times in religious horror. It's nothing new, but God, it's so beautiful and chilling. And the way she and the way that actress, um, again, we've we don't know how to pronounce her name correctly, but um she when she the make the faces that she makes as she's like being possessed by what she believes is God, like it's just so it's like almost like orgasmic and it's just it's really incredible. It's very, it's you feel like you're in there and like a fly on the wall watching this all gulk go down, and it's kind of uh it's kind of chilling. So yeah. Yeah, exactly. And as you kind of touched on, like religion is you know, this is not new ground that St.

Maud is treading. Like religion is a huge theme in a lot of horror films. Well, what's so fascinating about this is that this movie coming out in 2020, uh, you know, a more more and more people are kind of, especially younger people, are kind of pulling away from religion. I mean, it's just kind of like statistically, like people are just kind of pulling away from um just like Catholicism and Christianity and stuff, just you know, as as people have gotten older and more liberal, you know, etc. But I just find it interesting that in this case, like with Maud, this is a contemporary story in which she wants to be religious. She wants, she is completely so in on it that she is obsessed with it and everyone else is like, yo, girl, like chill, you know.

And I just find it kind of like I'm like, hmm, why would this be set in a contemporary setting when so so I should say less less and less people are not gravitating towards religion as you know, as as people get more progressive, and you know what I mean? Like, so that's kind of fascinating to think about. Like, why why was the story, you know, a contemporary one? It could have been like from 30 years ago, but maybe that's why, because she she's kind of like an outsider, and everyone else around her is like, Why are why are you like this, you know? Yeah, and I think that I was kind of fascinated by, you know, she says that she has only been practicing Catholicism for like a year, and a lot of the things that she either does or says in her religious practice are like questioned by other people or maybe seem like not necessarily correct practice of Catholicism.

Like at the beginning, she tells Amanda that her saint, uh, I actually I do not know that much about Catholicism, but I didn't grow up Catholic either, but yeah. Uh, and she says that hers is Mary Magdalene, and Amanda's like, oh, I didn't know that they, you know, had her as one of those. Right, right. Um, and then even having William Blake, it's like she becomes so engrossed in this imagery that he's created when really William Blake was kind of about subverting religion, and not that he wasn't religious, but he was into creating his own religion, kind of like Maud is doing. Right. So I think that is interesting because it's not necessarily Christian what we're seeing, even though like she's under the impression that what she's practicing is a very like like uh monotheistic God practice.

She's very um, she's she's kind of warped, her warped mind is kind of warping her own lens of religion, I guess you could say. You know what I mean? Like if like she the way she views it, it's like, oh, this what I do is that's justified. I'm I'm keeping God's word, and it's like, no, that's not probably what God would want you to do if it is in your head. But yeah, she's she's kind of and and that's the thing too. Like in the movie, uh you you could see like there are different voiceovers in which like the voice is very like deep and kind of creepy, and you're like, Is that the devil? Is that the devil speaking to you?

Like, I don't she doesn't even know, like we we don't know, and that's what's so cool about it is that it's very vague, and you don't really know what's going on. You don't know how literal or how fantastical it is because it's all kind of just in her point of view, and she's not a reliable narrator, so yeah, and actually her mental state is something that I think that well, I just love the way it's portrayed in this movie because Maud is kind of our constant, and you're right, she is not a reliable narrator, but at the same time, she's never really portrayed as insane, like everything we're seeing literally is just like here is fact, this is happening, right?

And maybe we're questioning whether or not like what she's doing is chill or not, right? But the movie never is, and so her specific, like the thing she's saying and the thing she's doing, are just like so matter-of-fact in the movie that I I was so kind of entranced by the way that they were playing with that. Yeah, I mean, I think like we've kind of briefed on before, but I think the possession scenes in which she feels God, that's when the movie really like it's it's not it's not like a Daven Cronenberg body horror. It's like a spiritual body horror where it's like when she feels God within her, oh my god, like that, that's when the movie really kind of kicks into gear.

It's like she just her facial contortions and her body movements, and she's just like laying on the floor, like it's like orgasmic, like I mentioned. And um, that's kind of interesting, being possessed by God. Usually we see things that are possessed by the devil more or less in horror, but like possessed by God, or she thinks that it's God, we don't know. But like that's kind of fascinating. So I kind of like that about it. Yeah, and I'm actually looking up right now how long this movie is because it's short as hell. Okay, it's an hour and 24 minutes. I was about to say that it felt really short, but that like I thought it was actually long, so it was it feels short and it is short.

Well, I think like what you and I were talking about off the record, but like, yeah, I think off the record. This movie in comparison to other A24 horror films like The Witch and Hereditary and stuff like that, those movies feel a little bit more bigger and iconic. And not that I I love St. Maud. Like, I this is definitely gonna be in my top of the year, but this one feels very smaller scope, and I can't really explain why. It just feels a little bit smaller and more like subtle, but then like it has its moments too. So I don't I think that's what you mean when you say it kind of feels very small and contained, because it kind of is.

Yeah, because that was my immediate reaction afterward was I was like, oh, like that was really awesome, but at the same time, like there's yeah, there's something less kind of like yeah, awesome in kind of the traditional sense definition of that word about this movie compared. And I I wonder if maybe that's because like hereditary midsummer and the witch, and mmm. I was about to say something that then citing the witch kind of disproves because I was like, maybe it's because those all kind of involve a larger reality than just the protagonist, when really like the witch is just about Thomason, and even though it involves other people, you know, Saint Maud is about Maud. Um well with the witch.

So I I already retract what I was about to say. Well, maybe like perhaps like with Saint Maud, like Saint Maud is she's a protagonist, but she's also kind of the antagonist in many ways, too. Where in the witch and even in hereditary with Annie Graham, Tony Collette's character, like they're very much like we're on their side for most of it, you know, maybe certain scenes, but like for the most part, we're c we're pretty much on their side. Where with this, it's kind of we're like, girl, we're like, you know, she'll don't do that kind of thing to make the difference. I don't know. Uh yeah, I I don't quite know why this doesn't feel as um epic as those other ones, but I don't think it diminishes what the movie does.

I think that's more of like something that I felt after it was over, not during and kind of hitting on what you just said, I just I'll briefly explain kind of the first half of the movie because I do think this is kind of like a you've got half a movie and then turn you got a second half. Um so it's like Maud is called to be an in-in-home caretaker or nurse for Amanda, who is suffering from uh I wrote down spinal lymphoma and then Googled to see what that was and could not figure it out, but we have evaluated that as cancer. Uh and uh Amanda is a very like worldly, worldly person who, you know, not just in that she has her own like vices or sins, as this movie is, you know, thrown at us.

Uh, but you know, she is a famous dancer, and so that's a very like body-oriented profession, and she is much more skeptical and unwilling to uh kind of latch on to the more uh spiritual things that Maud wants to throw at her. And so they're kind of a hard match, but they immediately get along, which you know is unexpected for Maud. And you know that something that it's not as simple as that, and that Amanda is, you know, brewing something a little more uh skeptical underneath all of that. But it kind of just plays out of like we're seeing Maud experience her religion trying to share her message with Amanda until it takes a turn. Yeah, until it takes a turn at this party where um Amanda basically makes fun of Maud in front of a whole room of people, and she has kind of a breakdown and gets out and slaps Amanda and is fired.

But building up to that is kind of more of about I I I I was viewing everything we're seeing between Maud and Amanda is just letting us know who Maud is because Amanda is so willing to go along with that, and so it's like you have this intense character build for Maud and seeing kind of how she ticks, and we're like Amanda being introduced to Maud, and then there's this sudden turn where we see then who Maud was before all of this. Yeah, uh you know, it's funny, like I think the dichotomy between Amanda and Maud, like Maud, she probably recognizes some of herself in Amanda because that's who she probably used to be in some ways.

Amanda, and it's funny too, because they both have it like this going back to body horror, their bodies are both kind of like Amanda's bodies reach kind of failing her, where Maud is like, she feels like it's like kind of like empowering her because. God is within her, and it's got like Maud is very prudish. She's very uncomfortable in her own skin. And Amanda is, you know, she's fun. She has she has a lover that comes over to the house. Um, she's they're just they're opposites, and they can't like watching them like Amanda's very brash, and Maud is brash in a different way. She's I mean, she she may she may be more like actually verbally polite, but the things that she does are way more aggressive as as the movie goes on.

Uh I was just going to say that I think aggressive is the perfect word because it kind of hits a point where Maud Maud is no longer willing to just accept sharing her beliefs, but she is, you know, she changes to wanting to like, like you said, aggressively, like push those beliefs on to Amanda and kind of shape Amanda's final days for her. Uh and I I I actually there so there's a scene. Well, I would say like the first scene that really caught my attention was Maud, you know, shares her her message initially with Amanda, and then she walks out and she's going up the staircase, and there's like a pulsing light and like this rhythm to the sound score that's happening.

And this is like her first or the first that we're seeing encounter with God where she says, when he's pleased, she can feel him in her body. And she has, like you were saying earlier, this very like sexual orgasmic uh moment where uh she is experiencing like the the how God is pleased with her her actions. Um soon after that, she is sitting with Amanda and they're having another moment, and she starts experiencing the same thing. And Amanda is uh observing how she's acting, and I I myself having a degree in modern dance, uh under really understood and clicked in with what was happening, where Amanda was observing what was going on with Maud and then trying to uh mimic it in her own body.

And I think that's partially psychological, her trying to play this game with Maud, but also like I understand this desire to see something physical and try and take that into your own body and feel the same thing, even if it's kind of second rate because you're putting it on instead of feeling it. But I thought that was a very striking scene. Well, Amanda's dying, you know, so I think she just kind of wants to feel anything before she dies. And she's kind of like, you know what? I'll I will entertain this notion that like God is within her, and hell, I'll do it too. I like I like to feel things, I like to feel fun, and Amanda's definitely more lax and more what's the word?

Uh I guess just she's just you know, she's more fun to be, she's more fun to be around than Maud is. Maud is so uptight, and uh so Yeah, I would not want to hang out with Maud. I'd pick Amanda. So I think she's just kind of like, you know what, fuck it, I'll do it. Excuse me. Yeah, and what's more tragic than um then you know, her body was her art, and now that's the thing that's failing her. So I I I think that for me, like, I mean, I know that I'm like I'm a dancer, I I relate so much, but uh the thread of like she her being a dancer could have been just like you know, a thing that is in the movie, but it's such a significant thread to her character that isn't a thing, but it is such a thing.

And I those details, you know, rose glass a plus. She nailed them. Um yeah, I I kind of want to talk about since we're going into that scene of that she rejected her. After so that after that point, Maud kind of falls off. Maud kind of loses. She, like you said, she has a meltdown. She goes to a bar, she attempts to flirt, she's by herself. Oh tragic. Watching. I I mean, I my heart just I was like, oh guy, I just cringe. And she kind of makes eyes with the guy because a few other guys she kind of eyed up, they didn't really give her the time of day. She sees one, and then the camera cuts to a scene in which she you see her hand movement and she's jerking them off in the bathroom.

And like, girl, and you don't expect that because of Maud, how uptight she is, but then you start to realize that this is who Maud was before she converted. So she goes to sit back down, alone, she's awkwardly trying to fit in with people, people aren't having it. She's just so socially uncomfortable in her rooms, and oh, it's just it's and specifically a moment where there's a table next to her who's laughing at a joke, and she just tries to start laughing with them, and they just like shoot her a weird look and she stops. That was the tragedy of this movie. I mean, out of the many tragedies, that was definitely one. Um, and then and then from that, Maud's night gets even worse when she decides to go and take some guy home, or I forget if she was at his place or whichever one it was, but she Yeah, I'm I'm not sure of the location.

But uh, when she's on top of him, riding him and whatnot, she starts having flashbacks um from the beginning, which we can we should discuss now of compressing a male patient's chest and then killing him. So oh yeah, and it's a very this is not like a super jump scary movie, but it is a very sudden and jarring moment where her hands crash through this patient's chest, and I jumped definitely my seat. Definitely, yeah. It's uh you're not expecting that. You're like, um, and then after at that point, she's she's talking to herself, or to God, I should say, and she goes, I changed, didn't I? For violently puking. And this scene, I don't this scene, I don't know.

The most violent puke I've ever seen in a movie. I was gonna say, have you ever seen possession from 1981? I haven't okay. That's what we'll well, guess what, audience, we're doing that next because Margaret needs to see that. But yeah, um well, I guess it was a very exorcist, like she throws that puke across the room. Yeah, just wait till you see possession. There, I I was gonna say point out there's a subway scene, they're pretty iconic scene in which it reminded me much of like that, but she's freaking out, she's contorting, she's foaming at the mouth, she's levitating, and that's when shit just goes off the rail. So yeah, she has that kind of classic backbend exorcist move or exorcism moment that uh I I think it's interesting that I mean, I don't know quite how the craft of filmmaking is done.

You know, there are so many different things that go into making a film that I'm just not trained in and that I don't know. But it's interesting to choose that image for this film when it is such an iconic image that's been used over and over again. Uh, isn't that also like the poster for Ouija Origin of Evil? Isn't there a girl in a background? I'm not sure if that's a poster, but yeah, maybe. Um there's a movie I'm thinking of that I think is a Ouija movie that has that image, but it's just like I wonder if that's like a way to like shorthand what's like some sort of experience or horror lingo to us.

Uh but I think that that kind of culmination of like she attempts to convert Amanda, she fails, she kind of, you know, she spirals out after that, and then has this moment that's like, you know, come back to me, this ultimate orgasm that she's been looking for in communication with God. Um, I think that was a very powerful moment that, you know, backbend or not, was like I don't even know what to say, because it's not the climax of the movie, but a very climactic moment in the movie. Heading towards that, yeah. And a big turning point for her where it's like, you know what? Sometimes I do suck and do bad things, but that can't always throw me off the path.

Like I have a mission to go on. And also, she does have a moment when she is having sex with the man that um she kind of has that flashback and it jumps off, and he's like, Is everything okay? And then he's like ready to go back to town, and she says, No, stop, and he does it anyway. Yeah, that was really disturbing. Yeah, yeah, it was very disturbing, but I do think profound in her journey where this moment was not only triggering for that memory of uh, you know, maybe killing a patient, but also triggering in other ways to her own body and uh psychology, that she this is the moment where I think things go from like somebody who's having a hard time to somebody who's having like a serious mental breakdown and issue.

Before we get into that as well, I want to mention as well. I think I could be wrong, I want to see how you read it, but I was wondering if Maud has repressed homosexuality because it seems like she's just kind of going through the beats, like she's so obsessed with Amanda that I'm wondering, and then when she has sex with the guy, I'm wondering, I'm like, she's not enjoying this, she's just kind of doing this because she feels like she has to, it seems like she's not enjoying this at all. I'm wondering if you got that vibe. Like, do you think she's kind of trying to cover up homosexual because she's ashamed of it? Because she's a new convert, or I I don't know.

Yeah, I mean, I think there's definitely a strange. I I can't remember if it's explicitly said or not. Does Amanda ever say, like, you just like you have a crush on me or something? Something like that. Yeah, I think it was. She so, yeah, I think something like that is said, but I think the main part is her jealousy of the woman that Amanda pays to come have sex with her. And Maud kind of puts it on as like Amanda's on this spiritual journey that you're disrupting. Don't come back and see Amanda again. But I mean, it definitely could have been something else. I think, yes, maybe to that, but in this moment, I was reading more of like the intense um you know religious stigma around sex.

Yeah, I think her being more ashamed of sexuality in general instead of necessarily like one leaning. Right, right. Yeah, you're probably right. So yeah, I don't know. But I do think that this moment, whether it was from him taking more than you know he needed to be because there was not consent there at the end, or whether it was that uh, you know, patient situation that had happened earlier, like something snaps and things start not only just in the story, but visually and in the uh kind of fantasy that we're seeing start becoming a lot more extreme, starting with this backbend moment that we were just talking about. Yeah, definitely. Um, and she uh we should we should also mention before we start to get into the big the big moments, but she also has a shrine that keeps growing, that keeps getting increasingly larger as the movie goes on, which is you know, it's I mean, people have shrines.

I mean, lot that's you see that in all the time, but like this becomes disturbingly like she she cuts out pictures of like from the religious book that I think of Mandagotter, I believe, was it? Yeah, well, it's a book of uh art by William Blake. And like I was saying, uh he I actually wrote down a few things reading, researching about him, uh, that he was inspired by the structure of Christianity, but had kind of formed his own version of it, where he viewed the body and the soul not as separate, but the body as an extension of the soul. And in the movie, Maud's reading the book, and we're hearing her in her monologue, and it says something along the lines of that Blake rejected organized religion, saying that it corrupts the intimate personal experience of it.

So all kind of related into this very physicalized uh experience that Maud is having with her spirituality and Amanda being a dancer, Maud having this physical thing. Like this movie, I think, is definitely tapping into like the sensuality and uh sensual nature of spiritual experience. Yeah, definitely. The other thing I wanted to point out was um I looked up uh what the what Mary Magdalene is the saint of. And you know that the information I'm about to give you is factual because it comes from Catholic.org. Oh, obviously. It said, quote, she is the patroness of converts, repentant sinners, sexual temptation, women. So those are all things that we are definitely hitting on here. And then it also throws in pharmacists and tanners.

Huh. That's interesting. So yeah, those last two are a little tacked on. But before that, those are all very prevalent things for mod. You were hitting on the shrine. This is also, I believe, the first time we hear that very like jarring, booming voice of whoever she has been worshipping. I think. Yeah, and we're as I think we kind of hinted at, but we're not quite sure. Well, first of all, as we said, we don't really know what's happening and what's really not happening because we're in her point of view and she's not, she's a little, you know, she's a little warped. Um, but it also comes across as maybe a little satanic, and we're not, you know, she he's encouraging her to do negative things, which if there is a god, I think that would not be the case.

Um yeah, and also I was just curious as to why this deity is not speaking English. I don't know what language he's speaking, but the movie shifts to subtitles and it's like a very scary voice speaking a different language. Yeah, I think it's I wasn't quite sure. Yeah, yeah. I have in my notes Satan speaking to her question mark. I wrote in my notes, I wrote um, where did I write that down? I wrote Bizarre Convo with God. God, maybe. Yeah, I put a question mark. Um, I don't know. Have you have you seen First Reformed, another A24? Not so much horror, but more of like a drama, dark drama. Yeah, I have. It's a uh and yeah, drama, dark, like you were saying, it's very that one's about um very much like climate change and pollution.

Yeah, yeah. Well, there's a lot of similarities between this as well. And as not sorry to spoil first reform, guys, but um, but at the end, Ethan Hawke's character who has been kind of battling with his, you know, kind of, do I want to be, do I still want to be Catholic, or do I just want to be a I think he's a priest, I forget exactly a minister, I'm not sure, but he's kind of battling with who he wants to be and like his identity crisis, and then he eventually martyrs himself and becomes uh, you know, um what we're gonna see from Maud, and uh, which is I don't know, I was interested, I was interested to see what you thought of like versus like when when a man is the martyred versus when a woman is the martyr.

We can get into that more we get to the end, but there's some I don't know, there's some interesting uh things to explore there. Yeah, and I guess I hadn't really thought about that. Uh those are the similarities in those two movies now that you bring it up are substantial. And there are quite a few moments of the whole like self-punishment flagellation thing that goes on in these religious theme movies where you know, and first reform, doesn't he like wrap barbed wire around him? Yeah, and yeah, that was horrendous to witness. Uh and St. Maud, she you know, kneels on some crushed up pills that look painful. Creates little pin sole for her shoe that she steps on, and that is horrendous.

I think I talked about this in our Gretel and Hansel episode. Uh, I can't quite remember. But I thought it was just like common knowledge that women were closer to God or Satan. But apparently, when I no, I mean this was for um the article that I wrote for something Google-ish uh on Gretel and Hansel. When I Googled it, it seemed like not everyone was on the same page thinking that. But I thought there was something about just like maybe it's in dance, Martha Graham always talks about like the life source and how the how women are you know the life source and have vaginas. So maybe that had something to do with it, but I just thought there was this thing about women and kind of spiritual deities that were more intimate than men, and maybe it's something also about just cultural things about expressing emotion, and spirituality is an emotional thing.

Um, so maybe it's that, but I do think that and this could just be me reading it as a man, and you know, men suck, but I do think mod does seem a lot more crazy than the than Ethan Hawk in First Reforms. Yeah, yeah. In First Reform, I was like, oh wow, he is sacrificing himself for the greater good. And in St. Maud, I was like, girl, get it together. A little more delusional, just a tad. Um, which uh I guess brings us to one of the I think one of the most scary scene. I now just a heads up, guys. This movie isn't like a terrifying, like holy shit kind of scary movie, but it does have its moments, which we should get into now.

Speaking of which, um the bedside scene. Um that's uh yeah, that I think is by far the scariest scene. Uh, because the devil, if if this is what we think it is, he makes it loud and clear that he's there in that room in the presence of him and Amanda Amanda and Maud. And uh yeah, um yeah, and this is another kind of jump scare moment for the movie where they're having a conversation and Maud is doing her Saint Maud thing where she's got her big, you know, gown on and her rosary, and she's also got a water bottle full of acid. Yeah, I think acid or something. Yeah. Yeah, it was strange at first, or no, it's not acid, it's something flammable.

Because it's weird because she puts it on Amanda's forehead and does a little like sign of the cross on her forehead, and you hear like a sizzling noise, but the way Amanda reacts is not owl that hurts. It's just like stop this bullshit, you know? And then later, Maud, well, you know, later, which the word still on the bedside thing, but later when she dumps it on herself, she does not like I was like, oh, like she's gonna start like melting away, but instead it's just flammable. So I'm not quite sure what this substance is because I thought it was going to be more important and then it wasn't. Yeah. But um, yeah, there's just a sudden turn where you know Maud and Amanda are having this conflict where it's like, is Amanda being kind, or she's like switching back and forth between antagonistic and also like Maud, like someone be here for me, which I think is just a desperation to not be alone in her state.

Uh, and then there's like a very swift change where like Amanda like yells something at her and her face contorts and she looks very scary, and she kind of throws Maud across the room. You must be the loneliest girl I've ever seen. I am not alone. And neither are you. He isn't real. You have no idea how the hell it is to be dying. I hate to be the one to break it to you, but it's just you and me here. Nothing you do matters. Well, that was easy. If you were to believe her, he would be enough, but it's clear now we were as good as you were. Okay. This is Maud's entire livelihood. So she just kind of completely crushed her dreams in that moment, and Maud takes matters into her own hands at that point.

She does, but before she does, Maud considers what Amanda says. She kind of has a moment where she's like, oh shit, like, am I crazy? Like, is what I believe and what I've been doing this whole time for nothing. But then ultimately she decides, like, no, Amanda, you're full of shit. And she, you know, jumps on her and stacks. A billion times with a tiny pair of scissors. Yeah. And I wonder. You know, we don't get a very good, obviously because Maud's brain seems a little bit beyond the grasp of reality. Understanding. Yeah. Uh, but so we never get a very, you know, tight grip on the lore or like the mythology of whatever she believes.

But you know, I wonder, like, is whatever possesses Amanda uh what Maud has been hearing from in her own time, or is it a different spirit? Like, is this a God versus Satan? Is Amanda physically manifesting, you know, the antagonist to what Maud has been working against? Like, I'm not sure. Now that's I think I kind of leaning towards what you believe as well. That that Amanda has, or at least Maud thinks that Amanda is the manifestation of Satan, which is the opposite of what she thinks is in her brain. But whatever. But also, like the voice that she hears in her bedroom with the shrine, or her, you know, like studio apartment, uh, it's very similar to the voice that comes out of Amanda.

So it's like here the whole time. If it is Satan, we don't know. Yeah. Yeah. I it's I think what one more thing to add is that like Maud ironically taunts Amanda for not being a true believer and not taking responsibility for her own actions, and it's like, excuse me. The biggest, the biggest like hypocritical statement. And like, and I think that that may be a commentary on what some religious zealots can be like, extremists. It's like, oh, you know, like they like, no, you were wrong, and you did this and you did that, and Maud is exactly that. She's trying to convert everyone and be be like her. And me in the meantime, she's the most dangerous person out of anyone in the movie, you know.

So it's like, yeah, that kind of I think there's definitely a huge critique of you know, religious institutions here. Uh, because I I think that generally, like in this movie, like the religion and mod are kind of a conduit more for like the insanity in the story, but also like that's definitely present too. And you know, even thinking about how sensual Maud's relationship with uh her beliefs are and the fact that you know sensuality and sexuality are so like stick uh uh frowned upon for uh you know devout religious people and certain I mean I I always disclaim, you know, not speaking for everyone, but yeah, and we're looking at extremes here. You know, this is a movie, we're amplifying reality.

Um but like I said at the beginning, how everything Maud does, like you just mentioned, is kind of hypocritical because she's viewing herself as you know, all second to whoever she's worshiping. And um, but everything is also a little bit off where it's like, no, that doesn't seem exactly like the way Catholics would go about this. No, that doesn't seem like the way, you know, so and so would be doing this in actual organized religion. So I think that the kind of delusion of what Maud believes in the spirituality she's practicing is kind of the the main hit of the movie. Um my thing to add about this scene is that when she's going to Amanda's house up on this hill, very like Tim Burton house up there, um she looks out over the ocean and the moon is massive.

And uh I was just like, ugh, what a fun like fantasy moment where the moon is like it's like half the screen is the moon. Yeah, that's yeah, I wonder what why what purpose that served or what, yeah. It was beautiful, yeah, it's beautiful scene, but yeah. Yeah, I'm all about aesthetics, so I was like, I don't care what it means. Give me something pretty. Which I mean, we did kind of hint at, but this movie it's beautiful, it's simplistic, it's not anything like you know, but it's just it's gorgeous. The cinematography is beautiful, and uh, which leads us, I guess, to the end. Um yeah, this this scene, it's I I I just I loved how now this premiered, I believe, at TIFF last year in September.

And I remember seeing some of the reactions on Twitter, and people were like, This kind of reminded me of the last shot in another A24 horror favorite of ours, which we should definitely review together next. Um, The Black Coat's Daughter by Os Perkins, the same director of uh Gretel and Hansel. But uh yeah, that that final moment of just like agony and pain and sadness, like that, that's definitely what happens here. And it's so beautiful because it Rose Glass kind of she's does it so well. It's like she's looking at it like on one hand, it's flashing from what Maud sees, and Maud she walks on the beach, kind of dressed like Jesus Christ, kind of very, very I'm sure purposefully, she's kind of draped in white and she just looks very elegant and angel-like, and uh she pours the gasoline over herself and lights herself on fire, and she's imagining everyone at the beach who there's a crowd of a good amount of people there, all kneeling before her, and she's got the big wings again.

And these beautiful wings. It's oh, it's the the scene is so gorgeous. In the meantime, in reality, everyone is panicking and screaming and trying to get help for her. But she imagines herself looking ethereal and angelic and kind of floating into the sky into heaven, and the very final shot is just reality of her in flames, being engulfed and just screaming in agony, and that's it. Yeah, and the way they structure it is incredible because it's flashing back and forth between the reality and her fantasy, and then it kind of stops and it is her fantasy for a long time, and that's where I thought it was going in, but then it's just the briefest flash of her screaming on fire, and that reminded me a lot of the finale of Midsummer where the whole clan or cult or whatever you want to call them believed, yeah, they believe in their beliefs so heavily and devoutly, and you know, these guys have volunteered to go be in this big flaming ritual, and they're told they won't feel pain, they'll feel like the uh the elation of like knowing that they've sacrificed themselves for the cause.

But when they do catch on fire, uh you see this guy screaming in pain. And I think, yeah, I think that's always a very um I I I had this like idea that I was rolling around in my mind about this movie about and then I was like spiraling out into conspiracy theories out of it. But you know, like in my life, you know, my life is about me, you know. Obviously. So Maud, I think, has this very that I wasn't just saying that, I'm about to connect it. Just yeah, just saying that it's about me next. Uh Maud is having this thing where she cannot separate that her world and her plight, like her modness, is is her her thing, and that's separate from the world.

Like the world is not mod, but mod doesn't understand that she thinks the world is about mode. She's very self-absorbed, yeah. Yeah, yeah. And she, you know, that's where she kind of comes up with this idea of like, it is my sole responsibility to save people and become Saint Maud. And so I was rolling around this idea in my head about, you know, what's real versus what you believe and like your plight versus like the plight of the world. And then I was like, then, you know, like I said, conspiracy, like, well, isn't every movie like that where you know you have the protagonist, but then there's a whole world around them. That's so it was getting out of hand.

But it was kind of making me think about religion and the way that you know everything is amplified and kind of dramatic because it feels like my sin is the world's sin, and my ability to save others is you know the end-all be-all of the world's well welfare. And so, yeah, I think another critique of you know, evangelism in religion is this ability to separate the your choices and your uh you know, your legacy is not is so minuscule in the grand scheme of the universe. Yeah. Sad. Yeah, no, it's yeah, it is sad. And it's I think what's so unique about and I mean I know there are other horror films that address this, but not as many that that do this, but like with m with St.

Maud, like she Maud is always trying to prove herself, which a common theme, like even like in The Exorcist, like there's such a in with any religious horror, it's like the questioning of faith. It's like, no, I do I really want to do this? Am I really in this? Do I really care about this? Like both, you know, the priests and and in uh the exorcist, like they're always questioning, like, is this real? Should I, you know? And Maud is never not proving her faith. And it's in spite of again, like living in a time in which people aren't as connected to religion, as younger people are more disconnected to it as they more than they used to be, I guess.

But like, yeah, it's uh this movie has a lot to chew on. It's a lot, there's a lot there. Yeah, and it's similar, like you were saying to the Black Coat's daughter, where it's like this one character has had this quest to try and prove themselves to someone. And in the end, like, was it all for nothing? Was it even ever real? Or, you know, what have you done all these horrible things for in the end? Right. And I think that's such a a big, you know, going back to just horror in general and why we love horror movies, that's such a big fear of everyone's is like when I get to the end of my life, what will it have what will it have all been for?

And um that's a huge thing about religion, because even if you are religious, there's so much debate within religion about like, you know, do we bel like what do we believe picking and choosing? And you know, to some extent, everybody knows that there are pieces and parts of religion that are made up, even if you are like the most devout whatever, you know, you know there are some things that it's like, no, like this was added, and no, this is just what some people believe, but it's not what everybody believes. And so this weird fantasy that you know is part of real life is you know one of the greatest horror themes to hit on because it's that's such a fear that everyone who even believe have.

Which uh leads me, if we briefly touch upon it, but another movie that you guys discussed, which was martyrs, and I think this movie parallels a lot to that, and uh maybe not on the surface, like you wouldn't immediately think of that, but I I see a lot in common with martyrs, and I'm curious what you think, because like in martyrs, obviously, like I forget the I forget her name, I forget the lead character's name, but the girl who ends up making it to the end, like she that's not by choice. I mean, she gets sucked into this and she does become a martyr and she does briefly see what's on the other side, you know, and that's the whole point.

That's why they're getting her, that's why they're putting her through all of that. And then, but like, what happens next? And then you know what I mean? It's like what like what else is there? And that's I think that's the whole theme running through both of those movies. It's just like what once you get to that point, then what? You know, it's like all this is for what, you know, and it's yeah, I just uh yeah, the main character in Martyrs, her name is Anna, and I in Martyrs as well, Mademoiselle she hears what Anna says is there afterwards, and you know, we don't know why she then kills herself, but you know, was it because it's so great that she wants to get there right now?

Was it because it's so horrible that she couldn't bear to tell all these people who have paid to be there what is going to happen? You know, we don't know. Yeah, my final thought, and this is what I was telling you earlier, was where I was kind of differing from what I was seeing online about St. Mod. It's not it's not as exciting now that we've discussed, it's not as exciting as I led you to believe. Because at first I was like, wow, like I never even thought of that, but now you know it's whatever. But I, you know, when we were discussing earlier, and what I've been seeing online is that people are starting to kind of come to the idea or the conclusion that Maud was maybe communicating with Satan instead of God at the end, and that maybe Satan was kind of latching on to her desperation for someone to believe in.

I was much more interested in the idea that maybe God, this all-powerful um, you know, overseer of everything that happens and that we do and that is done, uh, was maybe not as merciful and uh and good as we believe that he is, and that, you know, I I was kind of like bummed and I was like, oh, people think it's Satan, like, you know, been there, done that. Instead, I thought it was a much more exciting and kind of a more interesting legacy for St. Maud and kind of horror canon to think that this is the movie that's going to be like, no, it's actually maybe God isn't um, you know, this divine character is not the generous being that we thought, and maybe he's the controller of bad as well as good in the world.

That's actually really interesting. I didn't think of that. Yeah, that's that's some pretty cool. I mean, if that's what she was going for, which I don't know if that's the case, but like that's a really cool idea because that hasn't really been done before, if it has, you know. So yeah. Well, and that's why I was struggling earlier when we were talking about saying that this film feels a little smaller than other movies. It's I think that in the scope of the film, yes, but conceptually thematically, I think this is such a cool and exciting movie. And so, yeah, that was kind of my big thought. So thank you for telling me that I'm a channel.

Yeah, sure. All right. I think let's do some of our wrap-up questions. So we kind of texted about this earlier. There are a couple of murders in St. Maud, but there's not that many. We've got Maud, we've got Amanda, and we've got this person that she kills before the movie begins. So let's forego most memorable murder and just to ask, what's your most memorable moment from Saint Maud? Oh, there's a few. I mean, I think between the elevation scene where she's levitating in the air, I think that's beautiful. I think but I think and the ending, the final moment is jarring. But I think I gotta say the bedside, the bedside scene in which we get the manifestation of possible dark god or Satan.

We don't know, but I yeah, dark god, I like that on God. Um, I think that's what really that's what I think when people see this, when they eventually do say it, it's that's what's gonna stick with them. So I'm gone with that. Yeah, and I also loved how this movie has its gross moments with you know the self uh I don't know if abuse would be the right word for what Maud's doing for herself. Like, yes, but I don't know. Um, but you know, that moment was kind of jarring in that it was so aggressively violent from Maud to Amanda. And I think I'm going to agree with you on this because that was the moment where I was like, you know, all of this kind of evangelizing that Maud has done doesn't matter anymore.

She's here for herself and she's here to make herself into her own God because she's willing to throw it all out and do something that um vile. So I'm going to agree with you. That scene, chef's kiss. Chef's kiss. And and like we said, I think the final shot of the movie is definitely like, whoa. I mean, that's but yeah, and not on its own with the contrast of what else is going on. It's having a mod orgasm. A mod gasm, I like that. Uh on a scary scale of one to five, how would you rank Saint Maud? I'm gonna go three and a half. I'm gonna go three. Yeah, I think because of again, there's not there's not a lot, there's not a lot of scares in this, but the couple big ones that there are, I think they're they stick with you, they linger, and I think that's the kind of horror I gravitate towards.

It's just like building, building, building, then boom in your face. And so yeah, I'm going three, three point five, something like that. So yeah. Yeah, I think I'm going to do like a two, two point five just because I agree with you completely, and I always tend to think of this in terms of like, could I recommend this to someone I know that does not watch horror movies? And I think that this movie is like such so on the line where it's like like yes, I could, but at the same time, no, I couldn't, because I think that there are things in this movie that are so disturbing and would be jarring to somebody that isn't prepared to handle something psychological.

Um so I'm gonna go with like a two and a half, like a very middle of the road. Who knows? Saint Maud, would you give it a smash or a slash? Obviously, smash. Yes, a mod gasmas. I'm right there with you. I'm Amanda looking over at you and imitating and being like, oh yeah. Well, I hope you had an absolute blast traveling back in time with me to listen to Julianne and I discuss Saint Maud. Next week, Caroline and Ian will be back to discuss the brand new hot, hot, hot release, Willie's Wonderland, starring Nicholas Cage. That was originally scheduled for this week. Some conflicts happened. We had to push it back to next week and release St.

Maud instead. And lucky you because what an episode this has been. So come back for more fun next week. And while you're waiting for that episode, why don't you head on over to Apple Podcasts and leave us a rating and a review? Of course, you can always find me, Parker, on Instagram and Twitter at Parker Delray. You can find what's your favorite scary movie at patreon.com slash scary moviepod for some really rad bonus content every single month. And you can find us on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter at Scarymoviepod. Shoot us an email at scarymoviepod at gmail.com and check that website at scarymoviepod.com. On that note, I think let's wrap it up. Julianne, what a pleasure this has been.

If people are now obsessed with you like I am, how can they find you? I am at Twitter and Instagram at the Jewel Marie, the J U L Marie. All right, thank you so much, Julianne. It's on the to-do list. I've checked this off, and that's next. Bye.