Spiral: From the Book of Saw feat. Marisol Nichols

Jigsaw. Wait, I thought the jigsaw killer was dead. I know they're ours, not theirs. How can I catch this guy? If there's nobody on the boat, I can you can't do this alone. Whoever did this has another motive. Something personal. When was the last time you saw your father? All available units, officer down. That was just an emergency to get us out of the priesting. I need everyone on this cake. It could be anyone. It could be anyone. We're gonna tear this city apart. Hello, Sydney. Hi. Who is this? It's your killer host. My name is Parker, your resident horror fanatic. I'm Caroline, Scaredy Scream Queen. I'm Ian, Scary Movie Skeptic. And welcome to. What's your favorite scary movie?

What's your favorite scary movie is a horror film podcast where we're on a journey to find our favorite scary movie one at a time. Whether you hate them or love them, join us and discover yours. Woo! Hey Parker. Oh hi, hi, hi. Can I get your autograph? Because you're a big time journalist who got these two noobs into a really cool movie early. But we're not noobs anymore, Parker, right? Um, you know what? I'll leave that up to the listeners to decide. But I think what Caroline is also referring to is that you're gonna wanna stay tuned in this episode because one of the movies that we've been waiting for for an absolute year that has been push, push, pushed because of the coronavirus pandemic spiral from the Book of Saw is finally in theaters, and we're so excited to cover it.

But just in case you're not heading back to the cinema yet, we're going to do a brief spoiler-free at the beginning, and then we will transition into all of the spoilery spoilers with an exclusive interview with one of the stars of Spiral, Marisol Nichols. Exclusive, heard it here first. Stay tuned for that. And right now, I want to get in to my favorite new book, The Book of Saw. Religion. Mmm, yeah, well, honestly, I think that's what they're going for because my first thought was Book of Saw, this is a movie. And then, yes, I think you're on to something, Ian. More to come. Stay tuned, listeners. Spiral from the Book of Saw is released this past Friday, May 14th, 2021.

It was directed by Darren Lynn Bowsman, who also directed Saw 2, Saw 3, and Saw 4. And if you want to hear all about Darren Lynn Bowsman, you can head back to our uh review last year of the film Death of Me, where I interviewed Darren Lynn Bowsman. So you'll definitely want to hear that because we talked just a little bit about Spiral. So head back and listen to that right after you get done with our Spiral episode. Spiral was written by Josh Stolberg and Pete Goldfinger. This is the team that wrote Piranha 3D, which we covered as the finale of our second season, so you can go hear us talk about that. This movie Spiral, it's like the gang's all here.

All our faves. And we all loved that. Uh actually, Ian you did, so why don't you scale back that sass? Is piranha 3D where all the the naked women? I mean, yeah, with the piranhas. Yeah. Then it continues on to double the Oh, okay. Yeah. But we haven't watched that one. No, but the amount of times that we've brought it up on this podcast, we probably should. So Spiral's executive producers are none other than the men behind the OG that we all love, James Wan and Lee Wan L. And you should check out our review of Saw from season one. I remember that name. From Saw 1? Yeah. Nice. Caroline, it's your turn. Alright, we have first on the list, obviously, Chris Rock, who plays the role of Detective Zeke Banks.

Do I even have to introduce him? He's a stand-up comedian and former SNL cast member. He's known for voice work in like every single child cartoon movie that you hear it and you're like, hey, that's Chris Rock. Um let's not forget about his breakaway performance in Head of State, one of the most iconic movies of all time. I hadn't seen it either. You don't have to laugh at that. No, you must watch it. So he did the Madagascar films and grown-ups films. Um this is a fun little story time. Uh according to Lionsgate, Spiral was all Chris Rock's idea. He approached Lionsgate's vice chairman at a wedding, ballsy, and said he was a huge fan of the Saw movies and had a great idea for a brand new version that he would star in.

Even more ballsy. He sold his own position. Yeah. Uh so they took the idea to uh Mark Berg and Orin Coolis, who have been producers on every Saw movie from the beginning, um, and started getting everything in motion and got Stolberg and Goldfinger on board and manifested destiny. Here we are. Once you get a Goldfinger on board, there's no going back. Can't get it off. Alright. Thanks, Chris. Yeah. Yeah. I need to start pitching movie ideas at weddings more often. Do you think you are on par with Chris Rock? I could be. You know, it's all about confidence here. Self-awareness, maybe to go up and say, I have a movie idea and I'm gonna star in it.

He's Chris Motherfucking Rock. Yeah. You can put that middle name in between anyone's first and last name. Alright. Um, we also have Max Mingella as William Shank. He's in recurring roles in the Mindy project and the Handmaid's Tale, neither of which I have watched but have wanted to. They're on my list eventually. Samuel Motherfucker L. Jackson. Hell of all your try to be so cool with motherfucker. I tried to, but you can't. Motherfucker. The only person that's cool with that is Samuel L. Jackson. Motherfucker. Um playing the role of Marcus Banks. Again, I don't even have to introduce this guy because he is the man. Um he's in Jurassic Park in 1993, Unbreakable in 2000, Snakes on a Plane in 2006, blah, blah, blah.

You can hear personally myself gush over him in Deep Blue Sea. Uh going down in history as a very brief Caroline's favorite scary movie, Deep Blue Sea. Pretty cool. And you can stream that episode at patreon.com slash scary moviepod. We also have the one, the only Marisol Nichols, who is Parker's BFF forever. They're texting right now, making plans. I wish. She plays Captain Angie Garza, uh, and apparently is an absolute legend and badass. Uh for her roles in Riverdale, which I have not watched, Teen Wolf, NCIS, Criminal Minds, and 24, which, oh my god, this is all making so much sense. Who else would they put in this role? Except Marisol. Parker chats about that with his BFF in his interview after this, so stay tuned to get the inside scoop.

Oh, yeah, and we definitely talk about her history playing law enforcement characters and how that has informed her performance here. And you might be interested to know that in an interview, not with me, unfortunately, but with Digital Spy, Marisol revealed that this role was originally written for a man, and she snatched it up, and they made little changes, she said, and she was so excited to flip-flop that gender. Love that. Here's a uh spoiler-free summary, Parker and Caroline. And listen A criminal mastermind unleashes a twisted form of justice in Spiral, the terrifying new chapter in the Book of Saul. Working in the shadow of his father, an esteemed police veteran, brash detective Ezekiel, or better known Zeke, Banks, and his rookie partner take charge of a grisly investigation into murders that are eerily reminiscent of the city's gruesome past.

Unwittingly, entrapped in a deepening mystery, Zeke finds himself at the center of the killer's morbid game. That was beautiful, Ian. That was the best reading you've ever done. It really was. Alright. The Rotten Tomatoes score uh as of May 12th, so it's definitely gonna change by the time you're listening. The uh critic's score is 54%. The audience score doesn't even exist yet. We are the only audience. And we are the critics. We are the world. As of May 16th, that critic score is all the way down to 39%, and the audience score is a solid 76. The critics' consensus is quote, spiral from the book of Saul suggests an interesting new direction for the Saul franchise, even if the gory sum is rather less than its parts.

End of quote. And there have been many a Saw movie prior to this. As I said, you can listen to our review of Saw 1 from season one of this very podcast. To be exact, there have been eight previous films, Saw 1 through 7 and Jigsaw, and now we have Spiral. And could there be more? I don't know. We have some answers, uh, but not specifically if there will be more Spiral. In April of this year, so one month ago, Lionsgate and Twisted Pictures confirmed a project called Saw 10. So will that be another Spiral? Will it be a sequel to the Saw movies? I don't know. That's been Greenlit, and they're also in very early talks, talks on a TV series based on Spiral.

So we could be in for a lot more spiral. We shall see. Are they gonna call the TV show Spiralizer? I certain certainly hope not. Maybe they'll just call it the Book of Saw. I'm anti-TV size a movie. Just saying. Well, that is fascinating. But what I wanna know, what I wanna know is before we get into spoilers, because right now we're here for our listeners who are not gonna be able to make it to the movie theater right now, but are dying to hear some of our words. What would you say is your recommendation? Should people shell out the$20 to head to theaters to see Spiral and why? And I do want to give a quick disclaimer.

I, Parker, did see this in theaters. Caroline and Ian saw it in their homes. And in my opinion, right now, I'm going to tell you about my experience in the movie theater. And then if you stick around for our spoiler section, I have some thoughts about uh how that compares to watching it at home. So my first thought is yes, get out that$20, get out 20 more. I hadn't been to the movie theater to see a new movie in over a year. And at home, you know, I'm always policing the volume, worried about my neighbors, you know, sometimes if it's a little too light outside, it messes, whatever. I have never been so tickled in my entire life.

This movie was so loud, it was so in my face, my ears hurt after this movie. I had the best time. I kept slapping my hand to my mouth and then feeling stupid because I was wearing a mask. So it was quite a romp, and I definitely recommend. I think this is the perfect movie post-pandemic, where we've got a little humor added into our saw, and uh I have more thoughts later on why else this is the perfect movie for right now 2021. But why don't I go over to my co-hosts, Caroline Ian? What do you think? Should people go? Uh well, my opinion is this. If you haven't shelled out the money for our Patreon, I think that's definitely probably the first thing you should uh go over to patreon.com forward slash scary movie pod.

Then once you're done subscribing to that, you walk yourself over to your local movie theater after you're back to Night Dead Girl. Uh-oh. Are we doing dog voices? Yes, goofy movies. Yes. And you or is that more than a movie? Which is BBS movie. You pop some popcorn. Pop some popcorn. While the accents are ever evolving. It was Myra Rose, Jamaican. There's like, go to the movie. Oh man. All right, Ian, what were you saying a moment ago about going to the movies? Go. Sit down, nuzzle in your seat, let it get warm, and drop some kernels around your feet like we did back when we could go to public places like the movie theaters. Um and uh and get ready for a scream of a time.

Caroline? Ugh, I'm just so reminiscent of shoveling that popcorn into my mouth and the cool dark theater. You miss some, it ends up in your bra that you don't find until you get home afterwards. And if you're in New York, there's someone inevitably right in front of you doing something in a pulling out a full burrito and stinking off the theater. Or talking off the thing. That's me. Nostalgia. I am so jealous that Parker got to the go to the movies to see this. I feel like this movie is such a good one to like get you back into the swing of things. Was it completely life-changing, like emotional? No, but you don't really want that.

I think this is the perfect movie where you can link arms with two to three friends. No more than that. That's what we did. Get vaccinated, step into the theater in time, right, left, right, left, and have a fun little reunion with this flick. I love how you put the order of like link arms and then get vaccinated. Yeah, get your friends to go get vaccinated. Touch each other. And go to the movies. Oh. Yeah, no, I completely agree with everyone. Like Caroline just said, actually, I've now seen this twice, and it is not as the first time I saw this movie, I'm not gonna lie, I almost started crying because I was having so much fun.

And I left, and I had mul I had my friend Julianne, guest host Julianne, was like, How was it? And I was like, Julianne, I just saw, I don't even know if it was good, but it was the best movie I've ever seen in my life. And I now realize that it is not quite that, but it's de we are in for a really good year of horror movies. Uh, ones that have been pushed back, ones that are, you know, weren't supposed to come out but now are, it's just going to be jam-packed. And I agree, this is I I can't think of a better one to start us off. Like, I think this is great.

So, I would now like to talk spoilers. So, if you have not seen Spiral from the Book of Saw, get your headphones off, head to a movie theater and go see it. And to kick off our spoilerific conversation of Spiral from the Book of Saw, let's head over. Let's not keep the people waiting anymore. Let's head over to my interview with Marisol Nichols. Lucky. Hi, Marisol. Hi. It's such a pleasure to meet you. I'm so excited. Uh, I saw Spiral last night and first of all, was blown away. It's been probably what, two years since you filmed Spiral. So how are you feeling now that it is finally coming out? Um, I'm so glad we waited for theaters.

I'm so glad we waited for this time. It's serendipitous almost that we waited because it's sort of like the whole world went, okay, and here you go. This is the time now to see this movie. Um I I couldn't have planned it better. Phenomena. Exactly. Yeah. I was I was all last year just, you know, moping about how I wanted to see Spiral. And then when I saw it on the big screen, I was like, no, worth the wait, definitely. Yep. Um, before you were uh involved with Spiral, um, were you a fan of the Saw franchise? Yeah, I'm very familiar with the Saw franchise. Um it's one of those things where it's an entity in its own, you know, it's very specific.

You know, if you're talking about Saw, there's gonna be traps. You're going to be grossed out. You're probably not gonna, you're gonna put the Kit Kat down in the theater and probably not eat for the next two hours. Uh, you know, that that's that goes without saying. Um that being said, I'm a huge horror fan, giant horror fan. I love scary movies. I love good scary movies. Like, scare me. Scare me. I love that. Yeah, well, uh, I mean, I'm gonna jump the gun a little bit because usually I close with this question, but I've got to know what's your favorite scary movie? Exorcist. I mean, it's just so evil. It's so evil. And I even went, it got re-released in the theater like a while back, and I even went and saw the director's cut in the theater, and like the whole thing was so great.

The whole theater's like giggling at the most inappropriate parts because they're terrified. That movie like stays with you for like days. So um, Exorcist, absolutely evil. Well, I'm no one ever has such a clear choice. So wow. Oh, really? You know what you're talking. No, everybody's like, Oh, how do I choose? Really? No, Exorcist hands down. I've got other ones that I love that scare the Jesus out of me, but Exorcist was, you know, it's original. Yeah. And does your love of horror does that involve the choice or um uh Affect the choices that you make in your career. Like, do you do you like secretly always want to be in horror movies? I've always wanted to be in one.

For 20 years, I've been doing this. And I'm like, when do I get to do a scary movie? I got to, I mean, I got to do scream two, but come on, I am. I mean it was small. It was this is totally different. This is on a different level. I was telling another person, my best friend, I told her I got this. She goes, Finally, I'm gonna go exactly. Well, I actually had an I I had in my questions uh Scream Two small role, but pivotal, of course. Oh, thank you. And do you uh do you have any memories of your time on Scream 2? Yeah, we were shooting nights, so it was all night long, and you're up all night long.

And uh it was just me and Sarah, uh Michelle Geller, the whole time. She was so kind. This was like the height of her career when Buffy was going on, and she was shooting Buffy during the day and going from Buffy the vampire slayer to Scream at night. Wow. And shooting all night. And I'm like, how are you doing this? And she said, I didn't have a choice. If I wanted to do it, this is what I had to do. And I was like, damn, girl, that's some discipline. Um, and I I like admired that, and she was a nice girl, loved her, great girl. That's incredible. Well, Scream is my favorite franchise, so I'm in the presence of greats right now.

Oh yeah, and soon the spiral, you know, spin-off franchise will be my next favorite. Uh uh, so it's been almost two decades since the first saw movie. So why do you think, like right now, why do you think right now is the perfect time for a revival? Um, I think I like the way you put it, I like the revival. I like that. It's a revival. Um I it's been a bit, it's been a minute. It's been a long, it's like 17, 18 years, almost 20 years. It's been a minute. And I think what I love about this is it pays homage to what everybody loves about the Saw universe. Why has it been around for so long?

Why do they keep making more? And it pays homage to that, but at the same time, it's like, well, let's add a little something, let's try something different. Same filmmakers, same guys, just a new spin. And I and I love that. And I like the word revival rather than reboot because it gives the idea that there was something wrong with the first one, and there wasn't. This is just a revival. It's like adding a little bit more salt, let's add a little more pepper and spice it up a little bit, and there you go, you know? Yeah, that's perfect. And you're not a stranger to playing law enforcement characters in your career. So I was wondering, in your process, does your past experience and research inform at all embodying Angie Garza?

Or do you keep all do you have to keep it all separate? No, no, not at all. It's 100% experience. It was a hundred percent my experience. And then and knowing that and knowing that world or being familiar with that world enough to the degree that I have, which is you know, fairly significant, um, that's what I have to bring to my character. That's those are the building blocks that I use to create a a woman who's been put in this position and the captain of a homicide unit. You know, that that's that's these aren't beat cops, these are homicide. So as a female to be in charge of that, I absolutely draw on experience, but also my know and understand the politics of police force and who gets promoted and who doesn't, why, and blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.

Um, and how to control these guys. So that that's that's what I use to build the character. Yeah. And also not just a perfect character either, a very um, you know, in some ways corrupt, in some ways noble, hard ass all around. What was it about when you got the script that you were like, this is it, I have to do spiral? I mean, she's the captain, first of all. Um, it's Samuel Jackson and Chris Rock and Max Mangella. I mean, alone. I'd be like, yeah, okay, sure. Um but also the script was so well written. Um, and I've mentioned this before, but it's like I read it and I was like, wow, that reminds me of Seven, which is also up on the you know all-time favorite movies, uh, at least for the the horror genre.

And so it was just such a great, great collaboration of all those things coming in at once that I'm like, I have to do this. This is gonna be amazing. Um, I was so happy to be a part of it. And speaking of all those guys, I think you said, well, I'm sure you've said it many times, but I was watching an interview with Collider, and you were talking about how you know gritty grimy saw that's not the experience on set that y'all are having a great time. So I just wonder like, do you have any like standout behind the scenes memories from filming Spiral? Um, I think I have I wasn't supposed to start filming yet, and then they said, Listen, we're writing in a flashback scene between you, Sam, and Chris.

Can you come out? And I was filming Riverdale at the time. And I was like, Yep, uh-huh, I'll come, sure. And so I flew from Vancouver to Toronto to film this scene, and I walk in and I'm like, hi. And I'm like, wow, I'm such a fangirl right now. And I'm like, there's Chris and there's Sam, and now I have to like actually act and collaborate with these guys and work with them and all of that stuff, right? So um, and I actually I actually skipped one of Sam's lines. Like, how horrible, right? And I was like, oh my god, I forgot that line and I skipped ahead and I we cut and I was the scene went great.

I didn't break or anything, but I go, I'm so sorry. I jumped a line. He's like, that's all right, we'll do it again, it worked great. I'm like, oh my god, thank you. Um, and then I knew I'm like, okay, it's gonna be great, this is gonna be fun. Wow. So filming that flashback scene first, that's interesting. And bangs. So bangs. Bangs, yeah. Uh well, unfortunately, um, I is it safe to say that Angie is officially deceased. I mean, can't I don't know. Can you say that? I I mean, I guess you never know. It's soft. Um, you know, you never know. It's it's spiral, but it's hard to come back when your face is ripped off.

It's definitely hard. That would be difficult. The fact that she's not breathing is also a thing. Well, I need to know about this this hot wax contraption and what it was like filming inside of that. That I mean, you were in a saw trap that I that's everyone's dream, basically. Is it? Right? I'm being waterboarded by black tar, phenomenal. Um uh it was it was a little freaky. The way the thing is is was laid down to film it. I'm I'm laying on an angle. So my head is actually down, my feet are up, just slightly, but enough where you feel destabilized. It wasn't flat, right? So there's already that element. I'm tied in, and there really is something on my neck because I have to film it.

And there really is black, you know, stuff pouring all over my face, and I'm upside down. So it was a thing, it was a moment. A nightmare. I may have taken you know, a long bath that night. And probably genuine screaming, I'm sure. Yeah, it was it was a thing, it was definitely a moment. Um, if Marisol had to be in one of the traps from the movie, which one would you pick? Oh it's hard, isn't it? If I had to pick a trap. Yeah. Okay, out of all the saw movies, I would I would I would pick being in the angel trap because I watched it and I was like, why didn't she just reach for the key immediately?

Why are you trying to he tells you you got a minute? So if he's telling me I got a minute and the key's up there, I'm gonna be reaching in there while he's talking to me and I don't need him to say goodbye. I'm gonna grab the key as fast as I can humanly do it because that that hurts, right? The other part of me is like the frozen trap, where it's just really cold, is my worst nightmare because I'm a total baby when it comes to being cold, and I grew up in Chicago and I hate being cold and I can't stand it, and it's like my thing. So maybe one of those two. So you either want to be in the easiest one for you or your worst nightmare.

That's uh there's less blood in the cold one. I keep hearing you just go to sleep when you freeze to death. I'm like, well, maybe I could just go to sleep. I could just mock up being tired or something. Well, I was really fascinated by how timely Spiral is and the way that it uses kind of the classic saw moral dilemma and puts it on corruption in the police force. Yeah. And when this was filmed, that conversation hadn't quite exploded to the national level that it has now. So, or international, global. So what what would you what were the conversations happening onset and behind the scenes around that issue? And then how did that transform over the past year when this blew up?

I mean it's it's been known for a long time that within any not only police force, but any government, come on, there's corruption, right? So there really wasn't a decision to make any kind of commentary or any kind of anything. It was just this the way the story was written, and that was our setting. And this was a very bitter guy who was seeking his revenge for justice, and it happened to be this police force and the cops that had been compromised within it, right? Um, there's also don't forget Chris's character who was not compromised, who did the right thing, and who turned in a dirty cop, right? That exists as well. Um so it wasn't it wasn't a thing.

It was just sort of known. And then in re-watching the film, two years after filming it, I watched it last night and I was like, wow, this couldn't be more timely. That's crazy. Crazy how it worked out. Well, what are you hoping that people leave the theaters chewing on from the movie then? I mean, look, I don't want to make any political kind of anything. Um, I hope the people that go to the theaters have a good time. I think we all need an escape. I think it's been a rough year for a lot of people. And I think it's time for some entertainment to be able to go to the movies, and that that's all I want people to take away from.

I want them to go, wow, I forgot how much fun it was to go to the movies. That well, that's incredible. And thank you so much. This has been just the highest honor, the biggest pleasure. I'm a huge Riverdale fan. I'm so sad that Hermione is not in more of this season, but I'm so excited she's being a real housewife. Thank you. Wow, that was such a good interview. Incredible, iconic, never been seen before. Makes sense. Showstopping, totally unique. Marisol had some really fascinating things to say about the movie, about her spoiler, death, and uh just about what this movie could mean in the context of 2021 overall. But before we get into all of our thoughts on that, let me just give you a couple highlights of what happened in the movie in case you did not take my advice, you have not seen Spiral, and you're still listening anyway.

So basically, from what Ian read earlier, the movie has a lot to say, and also not always a lot to say, about corruption in the police force. Under the command of Zeke's father, Marcus, played by Samuel L. Jackson, of course, the cops acted recklessly and committed many crimes themselves to clean up the streets. That ranges anywhere from giving false testimony in court all the way to killing civilians without reason to covering it all up. Zeke is infamous in the South Metro PD for turning in his old partner who killed an innocent man who is going to be a witness in a case for another needless cop killing. Now he's in charge as a mysterious killer starts knocking his homicide team off one by one in the style of the now deceased jigsaw killer of the original franchise.

Turns out the killer is his rookie partner, Shank, who was the son of the man that Zeke's former partner killed, and he gets away. Disgusts. I mean, you can't watch this movie without thinking, huh. Relevant. It's true. I I was shocked, honestly. I feel like people, there are a lot of uh doomsday criers in the horror community who are like, it's all woke now. Blah blah blah. And I'm curious to see what the reaction to Spiral will be because this movie was filmed like two years ago. Obviously, when they made it, they didn't know. And of course, there's been uh police violence and corruption in the police force for a long time, and that's nothing new, and racism in the police force has been happening for a long time.

But obviously, they didn't know last year that it was going to explode and become such a national movement like it did. And so I'm curious to see how like the broader horror fandom is going to react to how now political this movie is. I mean, but it's also like uh like obviously relevant now, but you know, back then it was super relevant too, so it's just like being woke no matter what the time frame is. Yeah. Yeah, and like I was like I was saying earlier, I do think that like 2021 is kind of the perfect time for this movie because if we want to do a little geeking out for a minute, uh, with some horror scholarship, there's a really fabulous book called Um Post-9-11 Horror in American Cinema by Kevin J.

Wetmore. And it discusses the first movie a lot and how Torture Porn was kind of born out of the funnel of 9-11 down to the war in the Middle East, and specifically all of the violent imagery coming out of Abu Ghraib with uh how the g uh the American military was torturing people in the Middle East, and then images from that were coming back to America and being broadcast in the news. And it was uh his book, Wetmore's book, discusses a lot uh in conversation with a lot of scholarship about horror, about how Saw and torture porn, like hostile as well, was kind of a response to America's actions, uh, not only our guilt, but also just like our desensit to desensitization, desensit becoming desensitized to those images, and also providing a little escapism.

And I think what's so interesting, you know, t almost 20 years later, that was in 2004, is that we have a very similar kind of funnel of events. Not only has there been a pandemic that we're getting out of, and I think that's why it's meaningful that there's a lot of humor in this movie. Uh, whether or not that works out always, we can discuss in a moment, because now I'm just on my whole rant. But I think more importantly, the kind of macro event is the Trump presidency. And I know not of all of our listeners like when we get political, but of course, this is a political movie. But the Trump presidency is, I think, what kind of, you know, fueled the fire of such a global uh and strong national movement like Black Lives Matter last year, that um, you know, obviously that specific movement born out of uh, in part the George Floyd killing by police, and then how much imagery we were seeing similarly of police violence online.

I think that the release of Spiral is like pretty shockingly parallel to the release of Saw. And I think that that's going to be a really fascinating thread to see play out as we see more of a mass reaction to this movie. I'll be curious to follow that. But also, on a little bit of a lighter note, what I think's really interesting about this movie that's part of the reinvention everyone's talking about, is that Jigsaw, the Jigsaw killer in the original franchise, is famous for this kind of moral conundrum of him wanting to do good things. He's always trying to reform people and say, you're a drug addict, or you are A, B, and C bad thing, and now I'm going to put you in this trap.

You can either choose to, you know, reform yourself in some sort of scarring violent way, or let yourself die. And I do think that the idea this movie brings forward of putting that idea on an entire system, I guess, like of the police system, is really fascinating. I need a question answered. You say like they are given the option, but from my view, they're given an option, but I feel like it's only just to torture them more. Like I don't think they're actually gonna get out if they do whatever they do. That's that's the game. That's the game, yeah. I think that's exactly right. And I think that's part of the horror of it is not only what would we do, but also like, are they willing to, are you willing to mutilate yourself in some way or suffer in order to live, or are you just going to end it all?

I think that's part of, you know, and like you said, like some of the traps in this movie. I thought the tongue trap, the very first one, um, I thought pretty escapable. Like if you're willing to, if he had just literally jumped, then he could have gotten away out of that. Of course, he waits too long. Um, and similarly for the finger pulling trap, like he could have gotten out of that. Of course, I don't know if he actually had the time. It seemed like he moved pretty quickly. But all of these are escapable in this movie, more so than I think previously. That's what I'm getting at is I don't I'm not sold that they are.

Because I feel like and maybe I'm just misinterpreting the movie, I felt like um a decent amount of these victims were trying to escape. And they just like I almost feel like the uh what's his name um like timed the finger pole to be to coincide with the the water filling up. So no matter what you do. He started the finger pole. It's the hesitation. The game is you choosing, and if you don't make a choice right away, then your time runs out so that you don't have an option to. You have to be able to calculate okay, these are my two options. I have to start this now. Maybe. And I I also think that you're both onto something, because one, I don't think that Detective Shank, I don't think that he wants people to escape this.

I do think he wants them to die. But also to Caroline's point as well, it is I think that you could also read this as are you really changed? Are you a changed person if you are not immediately willing to rip your fingers off for this? If you're not immediately willing to rip your tongue out for this, like are how are you really worthy of change? And I think that that is also part of the moral dilemma that is a little bit different in this movie. And so I think that those are all interesting facets of it to chew on. Yeah. And of course it changes throughout the movie because then it changes to, uh, which this is totally different from the past ones.

And I have actually not seen all of the Saw movies, but I've seen a handful. Um, but it I it also changes to then part of the responsibility is being placed on Zeke to save other people as part of a test to see if he can rise up to be a new partner for Max Bengela's character. So I think that the movie is at least making an effort to toss around a lot more uh thematically, emotionally than some of the past films. Uh, I do think that they really advertised that this is a Saw movie, but we're going to have character development. And we're going to be serious and you know really think. I think that it's like, well, why you gotta, why you gotta shit on Saw in order for you to try and make a good movie?

Like, I don't think that's true. But they were really hyped. All of the promo I saw was really hyped on this being like a serious Saw movie. Uh, and that it was, you know, a little bit more uh meaningful in their opinion. Which I agree in some part. I do think character development done better here. I think that we get a pretty good study of Zeke's character. We see how he interacts with his father, we see how he interacts with his superiors. I think we really get to know Zeke, and then because we get to know Zeke somewhat well, then we get to know his uh the people he interacts with a little bit better. Like I think that Marisol Nichols' character, Angie Garza, is pretty well developed.

Uh, and actually, I think that's Samuel L. Jackson, he doesn't get a lot of time in this movie. I think he's mostly useful for understanding Zeke and Max Mangela's character, obviously, uh, we're not supposed to know the whole time. And that leads me to my next question. Um, do you think one of the hallmarks of a Saw movie is they have to have a killer twist? And um I've said before on the podcast that I'm pretty stupid when I watch movies and that twists usually fool me. But um I'm curious to know how far in advance you saw that twist coming. I didn't. Oh. Yeah, I didn't. And I'm typically I'm in front of those things.

So when he was in that room, you gasped? I didn't gasp, but I was surprised. Well, one, it was a little bit anticlimatic. He just like walked into a warehouse and I was like, oh, you with a very confusing shot where it came down from the ceiling, but Chris Rock had already exited the frame. Yeah. Well, let's not talk about um little Incidentals. Incidentals. We caught a few. I found Chris Rock grabbed evidence in the truck and with his bare hands, and then they pulled to him pulling it out of the truck, and there's a glove on it. Ooh, yeah, I noticed a few strange moments. But yeah, yeah, yeah. We can just we can just toss those off and just know that they're there.

First of all, the sanitary procedures in this movie, not up to par. Put those gloves on before reaching into boxes. Gross. I had suspicions as soon as Angie got text saying go look at the cold case. Because obviously, Chris Rock did not send those, and then I thought, who has his phone? Oh, we saw someone take his phone. So, Caroline, you're being quite the detective. I was the opposite, where I was harnessing my my knowledge of horror movies, where the second that he was like, Oh, this is my partner's body, and then they didn't show the torture scene, I was like, Oh, he's the killer. Done. That's very Scooby-doo of you. Yeah, well, I was just like, uh they're going to stop the movie every time to show us the torture sequence, and suddenly they're too busy.

I don't think so. That's true. I I did kind of think about that. But I didn't put two and two. I thought it was I thought it was more so like his emotional reaction because it was his partner that they didn't. Well, and I do think that that's present. And another kind of uh hallmark of Saw is this really fast, shaky action as people are being tortured. And I thought it was interesting how in this one they also use that for some emotional distress when Chris Rock is feeling some sort of way. So I did think that was interesting. Talk to me about how you felt about Chris Rock in general. I mean, I love Chris Rock, so like Well, not in general, in the movie.

Oh, well, you said in general. Sorry. Um I don't know. I think he was the best of well, you know, other than Marisol. You know, I think he he I think it felt kind of forced acting among the group at points, but I think Chris Rock kinda um what would you say held it together. I have a hard time seeing Chris Rock not in a straight comedic role because it does seem forced. Trying to put him in a box. No, I don't maybe it's just because I'm I'm used to um I'm used to seeing him and I associate his voice with that, and then like the way that he delivers lines in that same voice, I'm like, uh, should I be laughing?

I don't know. Ladies, let me tell you a little secret. And don't tell because obviously, you know, Lionsgate was nice enough to let me interview Marisol Nichols, which is great because I thought Marisol Nichols was fabulous in this movie. I thought most people were fabulous in this movie. Don't tell, again, don't tell, this is just between us. I despised Chris Rock in this movie. I thought I am hyped on Spiral, and every decision Chris Rock is making is making me a little less hyped on Spiral. Because not only is he yelling all of his lines, he's also doing these like weird twitchy things with his eyes that really is just not not checking out for me.

Um I really was not, it was a but it was a bit of a bummer for me that that perform. And usually I'm not even keen to criticize acting on this podcast because I'm not an actor, and if I see a performance that is doesn't compute with me that it is a performance, then that's fine with me. The whole movie for this one, I was kind of like, Chris Rock is trying to do something that does not seem natural in this movie. Yeah, I like almost giggled at his delivery of lines when he comes in and he's like, Where is Angie? She's in the basement. Like, we gotta find her. And I was just And then he walks down the stairs and I'm like, girl, she's dying.

Yeah, and that that scene in particular. Open up the door. Open up. Yeah, open it! Get to it. I was just like, ugh. I wish there was a funny context, because that would have been hilarious. Yeah, and actually, I said earlier that I wanted to briefly touch on the humor in this movie because as you know, I love to laugh in horror movies. I think that there is a sick delight in mixing humor and horror. I think that's really fun. And I don't think that the jokes in here were necessarily bad. Like I know in our review of us. Yeah, I giggled. I know in our review of us, I was really upset about how the the jokes halted the horror.

And here, I just thought it was strange sometimes how something serious would be happening. And Chris Rock actually had a quote in the press materials where he talked about how they wrote the script and then he brought in the jokes. And he said that he liked that, he thought it was an interesting experiment to see in horror if there could be something scary happening, you could cut the tension with a joke and then jump right back in. And it just didn't work out every time for me. I didn't think it was bad, sometimes I laughed. I loved at the beginning the conversation that Zeke and Shink were having about uh divorcing their wives. I thought that was hilarious, and I thought that it did really build the character and their kind of bonding, but sometimes when there were little throwaway jokes, it stuck out to me.

I think this movie really borders the like NCIS Law and Order kind of TV show, and that banter with the jokes, like kind of brought that out even more to the point where when I was watching it, I was like, am I watching Law and Order SBU right now? I don't know. I mean it really was just like a long episode of like um what's the one with like paranormal stuff typically? Fringe. No. NCIS maybe? No, none of that has paranormal. Anyway. Fringe. Sure. Fringe! Sure. I've never watched that. Oh, it's so good. It's a paranormal FBI show. Um, no, I think that the humor just needed to be grounded in the actual horror a little bit more instead of just lines on top.

But I do think that the idea of a proposed TV show for this is really interesting because there have been so many conversations this past year about what are the ethics of portraying police on TV right now. If there was a show that was criticizing police in the way that this movie sometimes does, uh, but it's a little it's complex the way that this movie does it, I think that that could be a really interesting, you know, perversion of formula with some of these procedural shows. Yeah, wouldn't that be interesting? An anti-cop cop show. An anti-cop cop show. It's almost like an anti-military military show. Or, you know, it's almost like an anti-dance-dance show. Yeah. Oh, we can start the anti-anti channel.

Yeah, so I think that's really interesting. And like I said, I do think it's complex because it's funny how you could look at this movie and be like, well, the cops are still the good guys. And I think that's where the reaction to this movie could be just uh, you know, chill all around. Because if you're somebody who is a Blue Lives Matter dweeb, then um, you know, you could watch this and say that, oh, the cops are still the good guys, whatever. But as horror fans, we know that you know, the villains are often the people that we get excited for and that we cheer for, and especially in the Saw series, Jigsaw is the person that we keep coming back to the Saw movies for.

I think that that really informs the reading of this, and especially knowing that in the original films, the morality of Jigsaw and that we all know that he wants good things, he's just doing it in bad ways. I think that really informs the messaging of the movie here, and that it is kind of an anti-cop movie. I think that's really interesting. Oh, well, I want to hear from you guys a bit about the end of the movie. This big set piece, and then we'll talk a little bit more about the gore and the traps as we get into our wrap-up questions, but I want to hear about um what you thought of the finale of the movie, where it is revealed that Shank, his partner, is the killer.

There's this big marionette contraption with Samuel L. Jackson, and then Shank gets away potentially for a sequel. What did you think? I'll tell you right now that my chicken scratch scribbly notes from when I was in a dark movie theater watching this says L-O-L-WTF. Yeah. I mean, I think uh if you're asking about what I thought about it pre um the end of the movie or post the contraption being fully um realized, I have two very different opinions. Because I would say the end of the movie when the trap is fully realized is like, in my opinion, pretty creative and very artful in a lot of ways. Like the the way that it um basically is like the man sticking it to the man type thing.

Mm-hmm. So I thought that was really interesting. So I was a big fan of Well, and I think that it I think that that image, yes, visually is really attractive and really paints the picture of um what we were saying earlier about this past year. Like, that is a black man, an innocent black man being gunned down by law enforcement. Like I thought that that was particularly chilling. That too, I didn't even think of that. And he is being controlled by outside forces. Yeah. No, I thought the trap was cool too. My issue is more just like we have this build-up, everything checks out, everything clicks, everything makes sense. But then there's this conversation of join me, you're either going to pass the test or you're not.

Yeah, one option is to save his father, which seems to be a bad thing in Shanks, but in the killer's eyes, that would be a bad thing. The other option is to kill the killer, also a bad thing. So I it just all of a sudden kind of fell apart at the very end for me, where I was like, Well, wait, but what does he want? Does like is him escaping right now, is that a good thing? It almost felt like he wanted to for him to choose for him to shoot him. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not quite sure. Well, if he would have shot him, then they would have came in and he would have been holding the gun with his father being killed after killing another police officer.

Hmm. Yeah, I guess the thing is it's just like all of the traps in the movie have a very clear idea of passing the trap means one thing, failing the trap means another. And in this one, I'm just still I've been thinking about this for about a I saw the movie a week ago, and I have not figured, and I've seen the movie twice now, and I have not figured out what the killer's solution for the trap was. Like what was his because the whole point is what does the trap mean? That's what the saw traps are every time. What do they mean? Is it addiction versus recovery? Is it, you know, rip out your tongue so you can't give false testimony, or you know, concede to your past and kill yourself.

Like, what does this last trap mean? And I think that the movie unfortunately really falls apart in the last like five minutes. I mean, it's exciting. There's big music, and it's like I had chills, it was just after the credits rolled. I was like, wait, what? Well, it's either like play into his emotions of saving his father or letting the police chief who allowed Title VIII or whatever die. You know, that's the choice. He's trying to get him to dehumanize his father by telling him. So you think he failed the test? By saving his father, you think he failed the test? Yes. He could have not saved his father and said, yes, let's do this deal, and they would have walked off into the sunset.

Oh, see, I was thinking the only options were shoot dad or shoot killer. I didn't even think about having a third option. No, he's just he's he's giving him the test is here's a gun, you can save your father or not. I don't think it necessarily has to be shoot shank. But he even said I thought it was shoot someone. He said he like you basically could shoot me or say. Well that's because that's because his his gut reaction was pointed at Shank. Yeah, but I guess you're right. I guess maybe there was a third option and they just didn't make that clear, which they probably should have. Yeah. And well also shooting Shank could also be a good thing in Shank's eyes because Shank's another killer.

I know he doesn't want him to do that, but wouldn't shooting Shank and letting his father die also kind of accomplish Shank's goal of he that Zeke is the only good cop? Well, the issue with not being clear about what we just spoke about is that at the end of the movie I was now questioning if Shank was being legit in wanting Chris Rock, because I don't know his his name, uh like Chris Rock to join him or if he or if he wasn't. Another game. Yeah. Like, did he actually want him to join forces to you know take down all these cops in the future? Yeah, I do think it's confusing. I think that that does it's weird that it seems like the finale should be the one thing you nail.

And to me, they nailed so much of the movie, and then the end was like, what? So I do think that's unfortunate. But do you have anything else that you want to toss around about the movie before we get to our wrap-up questions? I said earlier that I thought I knew who it was from the text, but I did doubt myself when they revealed the contraption of blowing the broken glass. Oh, that was brilliant. Because in the church, Pete had said something about the glass in the bottle will kill you. Mm-hmm. And I was like, that's Well, you thought he was torturing himself as a diversion. Yeah, I don't know where I was going with that necessarily, but I think they wanted you to think that.

I was just like gr trying to wrap my brain around that, and then I started trying to remember if it was I just looked it up and I was wrong. But I thought it was the the broken glass policy, but it's actually the broken windows policy, which is what they initiated what to clean up New York City. Um but it kind of also and it it was the same thing, it like initiated like police corruption of basically the theory is wherever there's a broken window, that means there's crime, so you can investigate whatever you want, um, wherever there's like a broken window. And it led to like arresting a lot of innocent people. So, but then I was like, ah, broken glass, broken, uh, this is all making sense.

But it's actually the broken windows policy. Well, that's interesting because I actually did a lot of Googling of Article 8 and could find nothing comparable. So thank you for sharing that. That makes a lot of sense. Uh, but yeah, I I I picked up on that twist pretty early on. But speaking of glass to the back, I want to know this week's most memorable murder is going to be a two-fold question, because I want to know your most memorable uh trap from this movie. That is part one. And for a little rundown, we have trap. For a little rundown, we have tongue suspended from ceiling on the subway tracks. We have uh finger traps pulling your fingers off versus electricity in the pool of water.

We have someone being skinned alive, hung in a uh butcher shop. We have hot wax being poured on the face versus severing your spinal cord. We have glass shards being blown at someone uh unless Zeke can unlock him. We have Samuel L. L. Jackson, part one, in the uh strung up with his blood being siphoned out of his body until he runs out. Part two, then being lifted back up, fake gun, and killed. What is your most memorable? Um, like all of them are very creative, and I just kept saying, Who wrote who thought of these? Yeah. Um but for me, I think this is not the most gruesome one, but it's I think it's the most iconic and most like meaningful, which is the uh Samuel L.

Jackson at the end. Marionette and yeah, and the gun comes up and then the police kill him, and I just think that has so much meaning. So for me, that's why I would choose that one. However, like I I can't choose from the others like because they're all just so great. The tongue got me right in the beginning. I just the whole time I was thinking like I don't think your tongue would just like rip where you would want it to rip. I think it would like tear out your mouth completely. Uh-huh. Yeah, I'm not sure. I have to say that the tongue scene, uh, I saw this movie in an IMAX theater, and I was like shaking with joy watching that tongue thing.

I was like, I was like, bitch, it is on right now. Like, I was like, this is going to melt my entire face off. Which is exciting, because I always say that Saw 1 is a face melter with that twist at the end with the loud music. So I felt the same way I felt when I first saw Saw 1 when I watched that opening sequence. But I think I'm going to go with the finger traps, because I found that so vially grotesque and disgusting. And also it was the one where I thought I really think he could have gotten away, but he just the like the meeting of events, of missteps, the it was just like to me, that was like Ian said earlier, that was art, that sequence.

I thought it was absolutely gorgeous. And I do think that all of the traps in this movie for the most part are really beautiful and really well done and really exciting. So kudos to all of those traps. Now, my second part of this question is if you had to be put in one of those traps from Spiral, which trap would you choose? And uh, I'll go ahead and start us off. I would choose Unforge, I think I would choose the tongue. Because one, I just talk too much anyway. And two, I would rather not be able to speak and be able to like keep my mouth closed but live my normal life. Whereas fingers gone, there's a lot of stuff that I do with these fingers.

I'm a writer, I'm always typing, you know, stuff like that. I need my fingers. And two, severing the spinal cord. I like being able to walk, I'm a dancer, I like being able to dance, and then I'm too much of a baby for the glass. I need to be able to jump and get that tongue out ASAP. So I've thought about this a lot. I think I would just submit to death with the glass. That one's like the most drawn-out, painful one. No, it wasn't. It was like hold your breath a few seconds, you get one good stab in the back, and you're out. I don't think that's true. I think it would be excruciating. You know what they say death by a thousand cuts, and that's literally it.

Uh, and I I do think, actually, now that I think about it, Samuel L. Jackson's blood through the IVs is probably the least painful, but I'm not going to. I'm not going to take the easy way out here. I think I am. I think I would choose that. Yeah. Alright, alright, well, what a bitch. On a scary scale, one to five, how would you rank Spiral from the Book of Saw? I'll give it a four. Wow. I would give it a three. I would give it a three as well. It is pretty fucking gross. Like, I think we get used to gore on this podcast because that's just the bread and butter around here. But actually, when I think about what happened in this movie, it's pretty sick.

It's pretty gross. So I'm gonna give it a three. Um, or wait, did I say four? I don't remember. Park or whatever you said, just three. Three. And now I must ask, what's your favorite scary movie? I think it's still Black Swan for me. Although this was um I would watch this again personally. Yeah, um, this was a real hoot and a holler, but I'm gonna stick with wrong turn 2021. Do you wanna know something horrible? When I left the movie theater, I thought this is by far my new favorite scary movie. And this uh is unfortunate, but watching it a second time at home without the excitement, it is not any longer. It is no longer.

Uh, so that's why I am so enthusiastically like, yes, yes, yes, everyone go see this in the biggest theater you can because it will blow your brains out. But um, it is not my favorite scary movie. I'm gonna stick with the Strangers Prey at Night, which absolutely slaps, and I don't want to see any faces on the other side of my FaceTime right now. Um, so next time on What's Your Favorite Scary Movie? We are going to be over on Patreon reviewing another brand new movie, this one on Netflix. We are going to be reviewing Zack Snyder's Army of the Dead, which I'm very excited to watch. So you'll want to make sure and head on over to patreon.com slash scary moviepod and catch our review of Army of the Dead.

Um, until then, you can head on over to Apple Podcasts and leave us a rating and a review. Ladies and gents, we have a response to the controversial uh review that we got from Blunkenator Raider. Um, and it's addressed to me. Let me just open this little letter to Caroline. Still five stars, so thanks a lot, Blunkenator Raider. Um they said I listened to your episode on Honeydew and I laughed out loud when you said my name. Caroline, you're right. Parker and Ian need to give you a break. Thank you, Blunconader Raider. G also said, I am non-binary, so thanks for calling me they. You're welcome. Everyone should get the respect that they should. Um we're inclusive here.

Yeah. Uh, but seriously, you guys are awesome. Five stars. Blockinator Raider still do not reveal their feelings towards me on this podcast. So it stands at I'm I am. Caroline's just thirsty for more review. They said I'm interesting, and then said that they laughed loud. Yeah. So well. Blunk and iterator called me funny, Ian serious, Caroline interesting, comes back to to set the record straight, and it's not about still interesting. It's not enough for Caroline. You know what? I'm blunt enough. Blunk and iterator, I'm gonna take interesting as a compliment. Like, ooh, she's mysterious. She's interesting. They did not say mysterious. They said, No, yeah, I'm interested. They said interesting, but I am gonna say that could be interpreted in different ways.

So I'm mysterious. You know, Caroline, this is how I'm interpreting Blunk and Iterator's words. I think they mean when somebody says, like, hey, what do you think of this shirt? And you say, hmm, that's interesting. Uh, I'm not interpreting that way. It's like, oh my god, it's so interesting. I love that shirt. Your outfit's so interesting. It's so I yeah, so original. So you regardless. No, so I think I love you, Blinken Adorator, because I love anyone who um is mean to Caroline. That's interesting, Parker. All right. Well, at the end of the month, May 31st is our season finale of season three of What's Your Favorite Scary Movie, and the 100th episode on our main feed where we'll be reviewing The Cabin in the Woods.

So you want to make sure and get your review. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Oh, we will be reunited in person. So you're not gonna want to miss that because we have this horrible delay that we have been recording with for months. Um, but you will want to get your reviews in on Apple Podcasts because if you we read your review on our next main feed episode, history. Yes. Yeah. History. And we're at 100 ratings right now. You could be 101. Oh yeah. Well, it was such a delight. I'm still pretty high on Spiral. I'm so excited for the year ahead and all the scary movies that we're gonna get to see this year. And I can't wait until next week.

My name is Parker, and you can find me on Instagram, Twitter, and Letterboxd at Parker Del Rey. My name is Caroline. I'm interesting, and you can find me on Instagram at Carol Manifesto. Where she posts very interesting things. And I'm Ian. You can find me on Twitter at Ian Hoyt. That's it. Motherfucker. Caroline, can you can you can you end us with your your interpretation? I'm Carol Motherfucker. Wow. Well, you can find all three of us on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook at Scarymovie Pod. You can find us on Patreon where we'll be reviewing Army of the Dead next uh in the near future at patreon.comslash scarymoviepod. Check out our website, scarymoviepod.com, and send us an email at scary moviepod at gmail.com.

Ladies and gentlemen, you just listened to the ninety ninth episode of what's your motherfucking scary movie? Good night, motherfucker.