Martyrs

It's so easy to create a victim. You lock someone in a dark room, they begin to suffer. You feed that suffering methodically, systematically, and coldly, and make it last. Your subject goes through a number of states. After a while, their trauma, that small, easily opened crack, makes them see things that don't exist. People ignore the existence of suffering. That's how our world sees it. Yet everyone's a victim. Martyrs are exceptional people. They survive pain, they survive total deprivation. They bear all the sins of the earth. They give themselves up, they transcend themselves, they are transfigured. Hello, Sydney. It's your killer host! My name is Parker, your resident horror fanatic. I'm Caroline, Scaredy Scream Queen. I'm Ian, Scary Movie Skeptic.

And welcome to. Whether you hate them or love them, join us and discover yours. Spoilers ahead, so plan your movie screening every weekend before the episode release. Welcome to the aftermath of the most fun hour and a half you've ever had in your entire life. We just, you know, endured Martyrs. I, as you may hear, am not French. So, you know, just excuse the uh pronunciations going on here. We got some names that are beautiful, I'm sure, but may not be coming out of this trap. Martyrs was written and directed by Pascal Lugier. He also wrote and directed Marok from 2005, An Incident in a Ghost Land from 2018. Should they use my French accent? Ooh, we actually probably know.

No, I know. Uh in the role of Anna, we have Moriana Alawi. Ooh, Aloha. Uh Moriana was in Special Forces in 2011 and broken in 2016. We also have Maline Japanel as Lucy. Um, she's worked as a model. Could tell, gorgeous, skinny, and that's the other one. The first girl is Lucy. The second girl is Anna. Oh, interesting. Edgy. Edgy model. But the other one's really skinny too. Um and actually was the face of uh Dior Snow Cosmetics in 2007. Interesting. Um, Catherine Begin as Mademoiselle. Oh, bonjour. Uh she's actually a very accomplished stage actress, which I could totally see. Um, but she was also in Lawrence, anyways, from 2012. The IMDB summary reads A young women's quest for revenge against the people who kidnapped and tormented her as a child leads her, and a friend who is also a victim of child abuse, on a terrifying journey into a living hell of depravity.

The Rotten Tomatoes critic score is a fifty-nine per cent. The audience score is sixty-nine per cent. The nice critics' consensus is quote a real polarizing movie, this Gallic torture porn is graphic, brutal, nasty, and gruesome, and not to everyone's taste. It's quite the negative response we've got there. Yeah, but you know, they say not everyone's taste, and I can't I can't argue with that logic. And you know, I read this and I thought, Gallic, what does that mean? It means French. When Martyrs premiered at Cannes Film Festival, it generated quite a bit of buzz. I feel like stories like this come out of film festivals all the time because they frequently have midnight screenings of new horror movies.

But so take with a you know a grain of salt. But, you know, apparently people were weeping and fainting and vomiting and having to leave the theater during this film. Uh, so it kind of grew a reputation as the movie that like no one dared to see, but everyone kind of wanted to see it, you know? So uh like the popularity among genre enthusiasts enthusiasts horror fans uh grew really strong. And this movie, uh we'll discuss later, came with a wave of similar French horror films, but this one seems to stand out amongst its peers because the word of mouth and the excitement for a like you know, naughty movie was pretty strong. You know, I was like, oh, have you seen Martyrs?

Oh, like you wouldn't. So already people were hype. Obviously, of course, because this movie's in French and us Americans just can't handle, they made an American remake, and I actually found this Rotten Tomatoes Critics Consensus intriguing because this remake came out in 2015 and was pretty much universally disliked. Uh, I have not seen it because I've heard such bad things, but apparently it stripped away a lot of the intense thematic material and tried to create like a hopeful, happy-ish ending. Can't imagine how that played out. But currently on Rotten Tomatoes, it has a 9% critic score. And the um this is where I think it gets interesting because quite a turn of um opinion here. But the consensus for the 2015 remake says, Martyr flays off every flays.

These jokes, Rotten Tomatoes. But Rotten Tomatoes says, Martyrs flays off everything that gave the original its icy, horrific beauty, leaving us an empty, pointless remake. So a bit of a change of tune there after we saw what, you know, could have been fillets. Anyway, anyway. So Fresh Out the Gate, Martyrs. Yeah, what'd you think? Our thoughts? Yeah, your thoughts. When it ended, I actually had like a much better feeling than I thought it would if it would have ended in the middle. Mm-mm. You know, because it's quite a turn. Yeah, the full journey really just like wrapped it up in a bow for me, and I can't say that I hated it. Which, if you would have asked me halfway through, like, are you loving or hating this?

I would have said hating it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So Ian? I thought it was interesting that the movie could have ended at three different points, and it was interesting the order in which they structured this movie. I thought it was sometimes it could have been a reversal movie. Like all in reverse, and it still would have made sense. Oh, like if we would have gotten the full picture from Lucy? The first third of the movie where they're in the house, she's killing the family, all of that. Mm-hmm. Yeah, it could have been like this build-up to this big climax of like because the first time I watched this, I thought like, I mean, increasingly it became clear that I don't think Anna could have made it out of there, but I thought like, is she suddenly gonna bust out of here and like kill everyone?

Right. So yeah, I kind of agree that like the killing the family scene, that kind of climactic, like shoot 'em out scene, like I totally could see that becoming the end of the movie, too. Yeah, because you kind of have like, like Ian said, like, you get multiple movies, a lot of bang for your buck here, uh, out of this one journey. And quite a journey. I think for me personally, that's my favorite part of this movie. Is the first time I watched it, I kind of watched it in chunks. I like didn't want to sit sit with it for that long. Hour and a half seemed like a a harrowing experience. And um, but I think that the suffering as a viewer contributes a lot to where the movie ends up, where you just feel so beaten down by even just what you've seen that having these kind of epiphanies at the end feel really powerful, at least to me.

And uh, you know, we can get into some thematics later, but like, I don't know, just like the relief of where the movie ends up, I think has like a a physical strength of its own where your body is just like, ugh, finally, like, I can wipe my sweat and go take a shower after this. But yeah, I think there's some some cool emotional. No, that's just my fever. So, first first piece chunk of the movie, well, I guess the very first chunk, you know, kind of woven throughout the events. We think Lucy is kind of our main protagonist. She's been trapped as a child in this like torture facility. She breaks out, she makes it to an orphanage, uh, where she's befriended by Anna.

And then 15 years later, and we know there's some sort of like perhaps supernatural being that's haunting her. And then 15 years later, she comes to take revenge on the family that we're not sure at this point actually did the torturing, but that she believes tortured her when she was a child. And it is horrific because you get this. I I think it's really cruel, but also great of the movie to let us become acquainted with this little family. And like, I mean, we don't know who they are, but we we like them. Like, they're a happy little family, they're having breakfast, they're playful, you know, they have some issues, but I think that the like projection of love out of this scene is so strong that when Lucy busts in and just like ruthlessly shoots all of them, it that was the point in the movie where I was like, oh, here we are, ten minutes in, and I already want to die.

That's ten minutes in. It might not literally be ten minutes, but it's pretty close to the beginning of the movie. Yeah. Uh, and I think the moment for me is when the youngest, the daughter, is running away. All of the like deaths are upsetting, but she's running away, and you kind of see like the bullet pass through her, and her like chest kind of like heaves forward before she collapses. And I just thought that was particularly graphic and sad. They're all pretty graphic. Yeah. Ugh. So, I mean, off to an emotional start, and then after the family is dead, immediately this monster begins attacking Lucy, and you know that there's from the start some sort of connection between them because she keeps saying, like, um, I did it, like, I killed them, they're gone.

Usually we don't see our victims or our heroes trying to like communicate and reason with the ghosts that are haunting them. So, like, off the bat, you're like, there's something going on here. Uh, and then Anna comes in, and looking back on the movie, the thread of what the result is is woven from the beginning. Because you have to do a lot of reasoning with yourself about why Anna is so intent on helping Lucy, and what ultimately it seems like the reason is one, I would assume Lucy has not just been killing people, but that they've been good friends for a long time and she knows that Lucy is troubled. Um, and now she's having this big break.

Um, so I mean, I would think that's part one is that they've developed this closeness outside of violence. But then if you're looking at the larger picture of the movie, Mademoiselle says later, Lucy was a victim of her suffering. And we know that Anna, spoiler, is a martyr. She's someone that accepts suffering and she is, you know, elevated above the rest. And so I think even from here, Anna wants to help Lucy so much because she has that compassion and she has that extra thing that she's a selfless being. You know, Mademoiselle says everybody is a victim now. Um you know, there aren't the a martyr is rare because nobody suffers anymore, and if they do, they um can't tolerate it.

So I think that that's actually an interesting thread that looking back in retrospect is happening throughout the whole movie, and it just takes all of this suffering to get to the end result, including switching who we think the protagonist is halfway through the movie. Do you think a martyr is a martyr from the beginning or going through something like that bad makes you a martyr? I think it must be a combination of both because I think this movie is trying to say that like life is suffering and it's about how you interact or accept it or don't accept it. She I don't here's what I think in thinking now, now that you've got my my cogs turning.

Perhaps there are many people who like have the capacity to be martyrs, but it's the suffering that creates a martyr. That's what I would think. On a more surface level, because we, you know, already digging our claws into the meat of this this movie, but on a surface level, violent movie. Yeah. I mean, we've seen some stuff at this point. We've seen razors being slashed across people's back. We've seen a head being slammed with a hammer over and over and over and over again. What else happens? We see a very graphic and uh um not very happy uh suicide. Nails coming out of heads. Yeah, well, not quite yet, but I mean it's it's like from the beginning, you're like, oh, this movie is really going all out on making us uncomfortable.

And uh, you know, I want to talk a little bit later about this movie, you know, sometimes horror movies, you're seeing this type of violence, but it there's a certain like pleasure to it because the the way that the movie's created, they make it almost like a game that you can enjoy. I don't necessarily think this movie was created to be enjoyed, you know. No, it was very raw violence. And I know that there are specific phobias in the group here about, you know, slicing and skin tearing and things, so I thought, you know, let's just check some boxes and get people on edge. We're here. Yeah. That's kind of the first piece of the movie, and actually, uh, I do want to mention that the Lucy's suicide is a particularly um tragic moment.

I think that this is our first glimpse at like the true like emotional depth that this movie has the capability of reaching. Not only are you seeing the reveal that there is no monster, the demon that's haunting Lucy is like the ghost of the guilt that she had from not saving this woman when she was a child and escaped the torture institution. But also, you're seeing so much of this from the sisterhood between Anna and Lucy, where Anna is still desperate to try and like like get everyone out of the situation and save the person that she loves. But she just can't. Mm-hmm. And I think that there's the movie, like, even with some of like the cheesier, like slow motion parts, or you know, we discussed how like how is she still up, you know, I think we have to get rid of some logic to watch this movie.

But I think that it really like capitalizes on our emotional state, even in these shorter sequences where I mean, I at this point wanted Lucy to make it and like get some help and for Anna and her to be able to like work through some stuff, but that is not the case. We are suffering with the characters. Oof. So this is where it takes kind of a a harder pivot to where we um start beginning to suspect that perhaps there is something deeper going on beneath the surface of her killing these people. So it is revealed ultimately that yes, indeed, these were the people that tortured her because they have a very spooky secret laboratory underneath their house, and not only is there a laboratory, there's a woman in it.

And she's got like a gross uh blindfold stapled to her head, and she's got like uh I don't want to know how those metal underwear was attached. Um but you know, Anna, she was like, I can't really help you, but I guess what I'll do is just rip this thing off your head one staple at a time. Um I do appreciate that she said, I can't help you. So we know at least that she doesn't think that she's going to make it out alive, so you know, whatever, but doesn't make it any more fun to witness. And that woman not a martyr. Would you want the staples taken out? I think if I had been down there as long as I think that woman had just kill me off.

Yeah, I think just just kill me. But if why was she blindfolded and panted when I think they were just testing out different techniques? Yeah, when Mademoiselle later shows like the images of previous martyrs, they all kind of have their own thing going on. So maybe they thought blinding someone uh would be it. And alas, it was not, yeah, I would say kill me first, but at that point in my suffering, I'd be like, just do whatever you want to me. I'm out of here. Also, the first one to come out, she would have been dead, so yeah, a lot of blood. And also, I was thinking, like, immediately she pulls her out of that room and she's just like in the sunlight, and I was like, Man, I would imagine her skin would just be roasting immediately.

And then I wonder how long it took her to get her eyes open after I don't know how long she's been blindfolded, but I know sometimes I wake up in the morning and it takes me a few minutes. Well, that's why she put the towel over her head. Yeah. There's also this weird scene here where um Anna calls her mom and her mom says something along the lines of like her mom's immediately combative and says they haven't spoken in so long. Why are you calling me now? And then she says something like, Are you trying to make me feel bad? I think about what I did to you constantly, or something. But she says it in still a combative way, whereas I once an abuser, always an abuser.

Yeah. Um, that was my best Rachel Green impersonation impersonation. Once a cheater, always a cheater. Well, I know what you're talking about, but it doesn't sound anything like it, so I couldn't identify. Anyway, it's It seems like people are making more out of her having like a traumatic childhood, but I think that was such a throwaway that I didn't even whatever. You know, we're about to get to the good stuff. So again, pivot. Another frenzy. I'm just on it tonight. This is where Mademoiselle comes in and explains. Mademoiselle. She explains to Anna what a martyr is. You may have heard my beautiful recreation of that monologue in the introduction. And actually, um, while we were watching the movie, I remember thinking, like, this is a good fucking monologue.

I'm gonna put a sound clip in our episode. And then I was like, oh, it's infringed. Then to me, the part of the movie that is not the most difficult to watch because, you know, the woman from downstairs trying to like saw her arm off with a knife, not pleasant. Um, but one of the more uncomfortable sequences is how long do you think these vignettes of Anna just being beat up downstairs and like force fed, how long do you think that must have lasted? 15 minutes? Oh, I thought you meant like in real life. No, I was like, I don't know, weeks, months, I don't know. In the movie, it's like a huge chunk of time that we just watch this.

I think at least 20 minutes. But so I was watching it and I was like, alright. We get it. How many times do we have to watch her being fed? But then, but then you watch that happen a lot. Fear. She's keeps like resisting and being afraid, and they keep beating her more and more the more that she, you know, expresses her discomfort, then there is a shift. She suddenly becomes angry and she starts fighting back against them, and they start fighting her even harder when she does that. And then there is a moment where you know, oh, we're getting somewhere because music starts playing. But the music is actually, I think, suddenly the music becomes very powerful at the end of the movie.

Not only because so much of this has been in silence, but because that that's been in silence, like all of a sudden I'm latching on to like, oh, something's happening and something beautiful is happening. Because the music was lovely, and it kind of got me not excited, but like clinging on to a little bit of hope here. Hallucinates. Watching this, I was like, incredible masterpiece, art, beautiful, love it, groundbreaking. I don't remember what the Lady Gaga called, never been done before. Never been done. Vomit it, eat it, I don't know, give birth to it. But um original, beautiful, haven't seen before, talented. Uh but she says, like, what are you afraid of anymore? Just let yourself go.

And it's true. At that point, what's the point in resisting? She needs to, you know, let herself go into the martyrdom. You know, for that full 20 minutes that we saw her just like going through all of this, I wanted more of a fight from her because I kept thinking, like, hello, like, do something, get creative. You know, I wanted her, I wanted to see more of like a mastermind, like escape plan, and then being truly defeated. She has a couple of moments where at the beginning she tries to run for the ladder, and there's a part where she tries to fight back against that massive man. Um I just kept thinking, like, I think I probably I could have gotten out of here somehow.

I mean those chains were pretty long. I couldn't. You can come up with something creative. I th I thought she could just swing it around their neck. That's what I was thinking. I was like, he's like there was something she could have been doing. Yeah. I mean my my strategy would have been alright, he takes the one cuff off, alright? And then use your other cuffed one to swing around his neck, and then use your free arm to take off the other cuff. I mean, Lucy does something similar in the flashbacks, you know, they take off her uh cuffs to move her, and she pushes the woman and she like breaks her ankle over something coming out of the floor and she gets away.

Uh and Mademoiselle says something like that was when we were less organized. I think for me, why that thought never occurred to me is just because I don't know, like you're you know that you're multiple levels down in a basement where some like FBI cult organization is holding you. I don't know if I'd be doing that much fighting just because it it just seems so hopeless from the get-go. I don't know, like I see where you're coming from, but at the same time, I'm more of a poopy person. All I wanted is like five minutes within that 20-minute scene that we saw her just like sitting there to try something. You know, put the bucket of pee over the woman's head or I don't know, something.

Yeah. Yeah, we only get glimpses, but I think what this sequence does so effectively is it exhausts you. And, you know, Anna is also because I just I can't get over how I feel so in tune with the emotions of the movie and how I feel like they're just you know playing me like a puppet because I feel so sympathetic to what's happening that I almost I mean I don't feel the pain, but like I feel that exhaustion with her. And so then when she when Lucy is like just let go, I'm like, do it, girl, let go, do it, just be done. And then they say, you know, there's only one stage left, you're going to do okay.

And we get the real centerpiece of the movie here. She goes into this like surgical room. Finally, after all this time, they flip her over, and we're thinking, what is going on here? Reveal. They have removed all of her skin except for her face. I thought they were just gonna put the diaper on. No. More than you bargained for. We have a Lady Sans skin. And uh, you know. Would that work? Like, would your muscles stay on your body? That would not work. I am not the person. I yeah. You would die. Well, I mean, I also the point is that they are trying to bring her, like, to the brink of death. But, you know, like I said earlier, a little bit of suspension of disbelief here.

Because as we'll talk about this wave of films that this came in, a lot of them are not super concerned with reality. It's more about kind of the um the journey to this epiphany of themes here. So this is where they really give us some answers. Uh, you know, Mademoiselle is somebody calls her and they're like, The eyes, because they're really into the eyes and how they look in this death. So she runs over and she says, Did you see the other world? And we find out that this is a cult or some sort of cult just for you, Ian. I know programmed it, and I was like, Ian's gonna love it. Um, but it's just I didn't see it as a cult, I thought it was rich old people paying for the research.

I think it's still a rich old cult. Yeah, Scientology. I thought this scientist, Mademoiselle, was like, I have a research method to tell you what you're gonna see in a couple of years because you're old and you're gonna die. Give me all your money. I think yes to all of the above, maybe. But you're right, it is a large group of rich rich white people. I saw very little diversity, and by little I mean none, yeah. Um, and they say, like, we are about to tell you what is on the other side of death, and Mademoiselle can't hang because she kills herself and is like, keep doubting. So I have two theories here. She either killed herself because what Anna has told her that is on the other side is just so great, and she can't wait to get there.

And the other is I took all of these people's money for my research, and it turns out there's nothing over there. I can't face them. See, my original thought was in combination with that last one, something what she was told was so hopeless or horrible that she couldn't tell everyone. But then I thought, well, then suicide's probably the last thing I'd want to do if it was that bad. That's true. So yeah, I'm really at a loss, you know. I think we are in the same shoes as the cult because uh we are going to have to keep doubting, and that is what leads to the production, you know, the research and the digging, and hopefully, you know, we do not go to those extremes that they are.

So if you listeners want to know what's on the other side, join our Patreon where we will be cool looking Caroline alive and finding out because you know, as we know as we speak only yeah, you're hearing this from the other side. Caroline has been in two and a half hours of an ecstasy state. I'm just laying in my little gel tub right now. Honestly, that gel tub looks like find me up, that looked great. Uh, and probably imagine all your skin gone, and you've just been living in like this like constant, like burning horribleness, and then just like plop me down in a vat of aloe vera. I was gonna say it looks like aloe.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Like, you have the worst sunburn in the world. Put me in that bath. Looked very comfortable. I think we can dig in a little deeper here on that note of theories. So, one, I think the most surface level thing this movie is trying to deal with is mental health. And, you know, don't have any answers here. So all of this is just I just that conjecture. Scene where Lucy kills herself. Oh beautiful. But also harrowing, like, no, yeah. I mean, it was like I I didn't want to watch it, but I tried to keep my eyes on the TV so I could see how they were using the camera play of like having that female schmeagle uh and not having her in the shot.

I thought that was really. You didn't notice the music at all. Well, the music, maybe it's because you were having such an otherworldly experience. But the music kicks in here because then there's also I think this movie does have a good bit of style to it, but the style is in like a more muted way, but there's this sudden moment where there's this like slow motion run where Anna tries to catch Lucy's dead body, and she does. Um, but I think that they like have just a couple of moments like here, and then her having the hallu Anna having the hallucination of Lucy towards the end, and then the finale of the movie with her in the vat.

They're like, we're pulling out all the stops to let everyone know, like, this is the moment. We are hardening you to any sort of sensation. This is the moment to feel, and like open the wounds and just like uh release, transform, we're martyrs. So I think you're right on target that that suicide um scene is like the first, like, uh um, on that note though, uh so a big one that we've discussed throughout this is how you handle suffering. And the big one seems to be madness versus acceptance. I pulled this quote straight from Wikipedia because I thought, Mademoiselle, you say it great, Wikipedia, you say it great. What's there left to say? So straight from there it says quote, Mademoiselle also believes the world is divided into victims, people who can't tolerate torture and fall into madness, like Lucy and Sarah.

I guess Sarah's the the staples of the head, yeah. No, no, no. Oh, oh, oh, yes, yes, yes. Uh, and martyrs, people who accept torture and transcend. So uh the whole movie looking at how we handle suffering and pain. I think that's part one. Part two is that this is the part that I think is interesting, is how this revenge that Lucy enacts on this family, it doesn't change anything. She uh she thinks that her killing the people who abused her and her feeling guilty about leaving Sarah behind, um, she thinks that killing them will stop the Smeagol woman who is, you know, her mental tormentor, as Rue Paul would say, her inner saboteur. Um but it doesn't.

So I like this idea that revenge or maybe like grudge or grudge, Jewan. It it keeps haunting us. There must be a Jewan in here. I think that's the part that I like the most is that I just listened to a podcast about the silence of the lambs uh to really go off track here, but kind of on track. And they were talking about how blank check podcast, really good. Listen to their silence of the lambs episode. It is um chef's kiss. But they were talking about how Clarice, Ian, cover your ears, because you haven't seen this classic. You? Yeah. Yeah, we watched it. Um long, long time ago, before this podcast existed. It's true. Before this podcast was a twinkle in Parker's eye.

Yes. Even a my dad always says about things before I was before and he'll born. He'll say, before you were even a thought in the ball sack. Dad. Um, so yes, before this podcast is even a thought in the ball sack, we watched silence the lambs, but they were saying something that was really resonating with me in this podcast where Clarice, her whole journey Ronaldi. No, different Clarice, Clarice Darling. Uh, her whole journey is to silence the lambs, you know, defeat her demons, and by helping other people, she's trying to help herself in her past trauma. But that Hannibal is the devil. So she can fight her demons, but the devil always exists. And I thought that was a really beautiful way of how they put that, and that that actually plays a lot into this movie here that Lucy doesn't understand that she can try and fight all these little things, but ultimately that's not gonna get rid of her pain that she has to confront, and that she uh, you know, can't.

Whereas Anna, on the other hand, knows that there are larger things that have to be addressed and that she wants to help try and overcome and face, but that, you know, she obvious she obviously doesn't have the power to do that for Lucy. Tragic. They're like Romeo and Juliet, except the um Star Crossing is just mental health. Do you think there is a level of mental health prescription? Not prescription, but like treatment that could save someone who has undergone that much horror. Because I always I contemplate this in a way, all the other horror movies that we've watched and people that get out alive, very similar to Lucy. Yeah, I mean uh Lucy at the beginning.

Right, they're gonna have a whole lifetime of dealing with shit. That's what I'm saying. Like, maybe they won't, you know, go off. All these horror movie stars have a Facebook group, a support Facebook group. Yeah. They're going to meetings. No, I'm just think like, you know. Yeah. It's an interesting concept. Yeah, I don't I don't have any answers. The other thing I wanted to look at was that um the idea of like the one person capitalizing on the less fortunate. So you got this cult of like Caroline brought up, rich white people, and when you said that in the movie, I was like, bingo, you're on target. They have this big, like, master plan of like, we need to know what is after death, which you know, like we don't need to know that.

Seems like you need to figure out some hobbies. I guess this is their hobby. But they don't the way they're looking for this is not by looking themselves, it's by expending or using people that they see as expendable to try and do that for them. Is this a commentary on science? I think it's a commentary on class, and um, I was actually listening to a different podcast called Nightmare University, which is also great. And they were comparing this to like which this isn't like the metaphor I would necessarily use, but they were discussing like animal testing, and uh, you know, you they don't see those animals as beings, but they know that, you know, they are you know using them to try and like test their stuff, which a lot of people don't like.

I was personally thinking about all this drama with Amazon and how you have somebody at the top who is just perpetuating power and wealth, and then you have all the people at the bottom that you know there's all this stuff about m their wages, and how uh most of like the Amazon employees like don't make a wage where they can afford, you know, all those articles that were coming out like six months ago. And that to me is kind of this like one percent that we're seeing in the movie where Anna and Lucy and Sarah and all these women that they're exploiting are just you know cogs in their in their machine of discovery, and that it doesn't affect them, and they keep saying like you're being used for a greater purpose, but maybe even if that's so, they didn't choose that, and that's just not how things work.

I mean, go back to all the billionaires that have, you know, shelters in New Zealand for futuristic reasons. Yeah, and then don't like pay taxes. There's definitely stuff that people are aware of that we are not aware of. Futuristic stuff. Ooh, oh, Ian, are you claiming the end of the world live on the podcast? No, I'm just saying uh Aliens? It appears there's people prepping for a reason, and most of those people are billionaires. Oh my god. You guys haven't watched anything about that? Isn't that is that part of the whole thing where like celebrities have a bunker under Central Park? No. No, the government has a bunker under Central Park. New Zealand. Yeah. Yeah. Wait, people are it's like a vice and I think Vice did it.

Oh my god. Aliens? You know, there are people speculating on the internet. There's no record or like you there's no documentation of it. Okay, well. Let's start a business where we sell people. Someone already does that. Yeah, well, let's take care of the middle class money. See if we can. Um I was this doesn't sound profitable. Probably. Um I every business idea from Caroline. Oh I want to hear more about Shell's coffee shop in Maine. Okay. While you were chatting about that, this movie sparked some thoughts that I had learned about in high school history class about um a Nazi medical experiment initiative led by Joseph Mengel, who hate that guy. Basically used all of like Holocaust victims as pay.

In his experiments for like crucial ways to die. One woman had her breast tied off with strings. Ew. So SS doctors could see how long it took her baby to starve. Oh my God. That actually sounds very similar to this. Yeah, like crazy, crazy stuff. I just remember like looking into this in high school and it's nuts. Well, and you know, if you think about it, it's actually the same where this like regime of people have deemed themselves superior to Anna and Lucy. Maybe why they were pictured as all white uniform Aryan. I don't know. Yeah, and actually it's interesting because Anna and Lucy, um, I I do not personally know their their origin, their background, their ethnicity.

But darker complexions. That's the thing, yeah, is they are clearly they have darker complexions. These people, like, it looks like they have walked through a storm of flower. Yeah. They are like, even Mademoiselle, like, you see, she's wearing a lot of makeup. She has painted herself like Mulan in Mulan. Um, the last little uh idea that I wanted to toss in y'all's stew is and this one was dicey. I was walking home thinking about this, and I was trying to I I don't necessarily have my own answer. And, you know, I think religion, I I'm not like, you know, I'm not making any claims, so don't get offended because believe what you believe. I want to talk, though, about religion in the context of these rich people.

And I think where the discrepancy between religion as like passion or as inspiration versus what this seems to be like, which is religion as like hobby or like your purpose. What are you saying here? Are you saying that these rich white people are part of a religion together? I'm saying that I think that they are using religion as a justification for justification for oppression. So again, I don't really have the answer. Religion in a loose term. Religion, yes, in a loose term, because they're on a quest for answers about the afterlife, which if you think about it, it's religion. I know that they're like we love science, but also like the science of religion. What's throwing me off is when Mademoiselle makes her big speech, she says, like, religion has been trying to claim this for years.

What are they creating if not their own religion? What's the purpose of them knowing what's in the afterlife if not to tell others and have them? I always use the Bible and Christianity as an example, because that's just what I'm familiar with. That's the one that I know the most about. But you know, why do we follow the rules in the Bible? Why do we act nice and, you know, be lawful people and worship? It's because I mean again, whatever, but when you boil it down, it's because there is the Bible tells us there's an afterlife and you want it, you know? That and not going to jail. Well, yeah, but like even like the rules and the laws of the Bible, like, you know, respecting your mother and father, don't commit adultery, like those are things, premarital sex, all that stuff, like those are things that are not breaking the law to do and going to jail, but they're things that people do because they believe that that's how to live a holy life to achieve this afterlife of glory.

So all that to just say At the time it was the law. Well, yeah. But all that to say that's exactly what these people are creating. They're doing all this to create religion, if you think about it. And so I I again I don't have answers and I don't know what I'm exactly trying to say, but I think that there's some sort of danger in the way that these people are using religion that I think the movie could be trying to correlate with wealth and class. I'm like halfway there, but I don't think you really completed the thought, so I don't know where else to go with it. My thoughts are also not complete. So, you know, let that be the nugget, the chicken nuggy.

That gets your brain spinning. And uh yeah, I don't have anything else to add. I think my brain just stopped. Alright. So the last thing I want to hit on here is as alluded to earlier, this film, Martyrs, is kind of the um, I would say the popular piece of a wave of films called the New French Extremity. So the New French Extremity, a term originally coined by James Quant in an article in 2004. The article is in a publication called Art Forum, and it was titled Flesh and Blood: Sex and Violence in Recent French Cinema. And he used the term New French extremity as an extreme, extremity, as a negative term. He was criticizing these films coming from France that were boasting excessive gore and sexuality, sometimes separate, sometimes both, because I think this movie is pretty explicit in multiple scenes saying that nothing is sexual that's happening.

You know, at the beginning, he's like, if there's one thing we know for sure, she was not raped. And then, you know, that woman's using that wearing that huge metal belt. I think they go to some lengths to make us know that this movie's not about sex. And um, but this wave of movies also has, you know, very sexual, very gory uh movies. Some are very specific, some people are very specific about the films and time period, but other people believe that this is just a label that was really just used to describe a wave of French films coming over, um, when really the films were just French, you know, a little more liberal with their nudity and things of that nature.

That's kind of the two camps. If you're wanting to look at other new French Extremity movies, you've got things similar to Martyrs, like a movie called Frontiers, high tension, inside. So those are, you know, kind of keywords you can look and dive into. Now, the New French Extremity extends beyond tour and includes other genres. However, they all use extremisms like body horror, like what we just saw, and exploitation, and they all are kind of wrapped up in some sort of art house style. You know, just like martyrs, it's kind of difficult to explain what it's about, but it's definitely got style and purpose, and you know, plot sometimes gives way to theme and to ambiance and visuals.

What I think is interesting is that this article was published in 2004, and that coincide coincides with the beginning of the American torture porn craze. You know, Saw came out in 2004, I believe Hostile came out in 2006, and they're all kind of of the same vein, this hyper gory uh film. Yeah, it's all about the gore. Uh so I'm curious, because we just looked at the grudge, and on our Patreon we kind of looked into Jay Horror. And I'm curious, because that predates this wave by only a couple years, you know, that wave gave way to torture porn and found footage. And I'm wondering if maybe America was simply taking interest in international filmmaking at the time, and this was just kind of an extension reflecting what was popular in America, and they're like, hey, France is doing it too.

Why don't we watch those movies too? Because I feel like a while ago, watching like a subtitled movie was like, oh wow, you must think you're really bougie. And now, like even last year, there were tons of like super popular foreign films that everyone was seeing, like Parasite, or uh, if you saw Climax, or um Yeah, those are the two that I saw. But you know, I feel like it's not so like snooty to see an international movie anymore. So I wonder if J Horror and like this new French Extremity were just the beginnings of popularizing and kind of mainstreaming a subtitled film. People were like, oh, subtitles in BD. Uh, I would like to read you a quote from the director of this film, Lagier, Laugier, Lagier, uh, that he had from Indy London.

He said, and this is just ending out our discussion, my film is very clear about what it says about human pain and human suffering. The film is only really about the nature and the meaning of suffering. I mean the pain we all feel on an everyday basis in a symbolic way. The film doesn't talk about torture, comparing it to American films, it talks about pain. And I thought that was beautiful. Just sum it up for us, you know, everything we've discussed. Beautiful. I'm curious, personally. Curious. What you think is the most memorable murder from martyrs. Really, no good good entries. I was gonna say they get them done quick and easy, but no, they actually do not.

Uh it seems like every character that has any sort of role in this movie dies. I don't think like the most gruesome or anything like that, but the most memorable, because I'm still thinking about it, is Mademoiselle killing herself. Going for the deeper symbolism. Well, I mean, it's it's a tie between the head getting smashed, the mom and most memorable suicide being the next slash. Yeah, that was pretty bad. Lots of um sharp objects penetrating skin for you. Yeah. Uh, I know that we don't see the death, but I'm gonna go with probably the most generic and basic answer and just say Anna. I liked seeing her without skin. It was fun. I was like, first time I watched this, I was like, oh, he really amped it up.

Looks like a little gummy worm sitting there. I was thinking, you know, I'm a Pilates instructor. Let's take some notes. What are those muscles? I did. I was looking at her pectorals. Oh, I was looking at her abdominals. Beautiful. Very defined. Uh well, they starved her for a while, so you know. Defined. Didn't have a lot of fat on the outside. On a scary scale, one to five, how would you rate martyrs? And this is kind of a tough one. But I mean, I know my answer. I'm gonna give martyrs a four. Because I think while I'm not sitting here like, no, I'm gonna have nightmares, like this is a movie that I think is very good that I would probably recommend to no one.

Cause I think that it is it is a bold move to ask someone to sit through it. You guys. And that's why I wouldn't I think that I'm not jumping out of my seat, but also like this is a movie that sticks with you. Yeah, it was not fun, but I am still thinking about it, obviously, because we're talking about it, but I will also still think about it later, so I'm also gonna go with a four. If I could give a half point, I'd give it a three and a half. But I think because of the the scary woman, what's her name? The ultra persona of the first one. Oh, I don't think we get a name.

She's just the woman she left behind. She's pretty scary. Yeah. So I'll round it up to a four. Shmeagle. Alright. Yeah, when she's crawling down the stairs, I was like, Meagle. Yeah. Okay. We got it. This movie had quite a bit of slashing in it. However, the trend does not have to continue if you don't want it to. Would you give martyrs a smash or a slash? I'm gonna give it a smash. I will also give it a smash. Ooh, I'm going to give it a smash. I watched it a few weeks ago to get ready for this, and I thought about it until we watched it tonight. That's a smash in my book. On that note, wrapping her up.

What's your favorite scary movie? The Shining. Rare Exports. Aw, I thought maybe I'd gotten one of you with this one. Caroline, you seemed pretty positive the whole time. I was, but like, I didn't enjoy it. Yeah. That's true. So. Uh, and you know, saying all that, I'm gonna stick with an American werewolf in London. Really enjoyed that. Um, next time on what's your favorite scary movie, you better believe we're gonna go from this chaste look at body horror, and we're gonna get sexy. We are going to watch the classic franchise. The fur well, the first installment. We're not watching a whole franchise here. Uh, Hellraiser from the late 80s. So looking forward to that because, you know, honestly, well, no spoilers.

So look forward to it and listen in next week as we watch Hellraiser. While you're waiting for that riveting sensual discussion, you can head over to Apple Podcasts and leave us a rating and a review. That would be super helpful. And on top of that, we will give you a scream over the airwaves. Uh big shout out to the five-star review from Hello and No. They said, love the show, always keeps me interested, and always look forward to new episodes. We look forward to having you listen. Yeah, and you forgot the heading of this says excellent. Well, we are. Excellent. You know, I don't take that lightly. And you know what? I agree with you, hello and no.

I personally feel excellent after watching martyrs today, and I hope that everyone else who watched it for this podcast does as well. My name is Parker Heron. Not a martyr. You can find me on Instagram, Twitter, Letterboxd, and the slash rap at Parker Del Rey. My name is Caroline. You can find me on the Twitter and Instagram at Carol Manifesto. By the way, please tweet at me because I still never get on it. Oh, all right. That's a good incentivize me to get on Twitter, please. She's getting on as we speak, so you better hurry. Yeah. And my name's Ian Hoyt. You can find me on the treadmill two or three times a week. Alright, believe that when I see it.

You can find all three of us, the whole kitten caboodle, on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, at ScarymoviePod. You can find our reviews and our calendar and everything. What's your favorite scary movie at scarymoviepod.com. Remember, this is your last fucking chance to get a rad postcard from us for subscribing to our Lori or Alice tier on Patreon. Just head to patreon.com slash scary moviepod. If you subscribe by the end of January to getting our bonus episodes, then you can get a postcard signed by us in the mail. Who doesn't like getting mail? So again, that's patreon.com slash scary movie pod. We love your support and you're getting some good shit out of that too.