Jennifer's Body feat. Julieann Marie

Jennifer's evil, I know. No, I mean he's actually evil, not high school evil. You are never a good friend. You can't anything you want. No, boy. I only murder boys. I go both ways. I will finish you if I have to. Okay. You can barely finish gym class. Hello, City. Hi. Who's this? It's your killer host. My name is Parker, your resident horror fanatic. And I'm Julianne, your A24 horror. And welcome to. What's your favorite scary movie? What's your favorite scary movie is a horror film podcast where we're on a journey to find our favorite scary movie one at a time. Whether you hate them or love them, join us and discover yours. Spoilers ahead, so plan your movie screening every weekend before the episode release.

Oh, welcome back to Pride Month. Last week we were just titillated with the scrumptious, the human centipede. Super gay, as I said, a lot of ass eating happening. And this week, right back at it. Well, not with ass eating, but you know, gay stuff. With Jennifer's body, and you'll never guess who is here. Julianne Marie is back at it, back in action. Hey. Hi guys. How have you been? Whole month? Wonderful, honestly. Honestly, wonderful. That sounds sincere. Well, I have some great news for you, actually. Yeah. We have been teasing for months and months about some recorded episode that we did that would never see the light of day. I'll give you an exclusive right here, right now.

Saint Maud, you're gonna hear our episode next month. Yay! She's back. Miss A24 is coming for you. So everyone be careful heading back to the movie theater, but do it because you'll want to hear our episode. Back back too soon. Well, I don't want to distract from today's topic because there have been 10 years of distraction, and finally we're ready. We're ready. I almost started this podcast 10 years ago, but I just wasn't ready, you know. But now Jennifer's body is ready. When you were like five. I was not five, I was 14. Yeah, 14. Yin yang. All right. Well, Jennifer's Body, as just determined by my age, was released in 2009. It was directed by Karen Kusama, who also had directed Aeon Flex from 2005.

Have you seen that? I actually haven't. No. Was that her first film? Okay, she's she's actually done more things than you've realized. Yeah, definitely. Uh, yes, Girl Fight in 2000 was her first film, and Aeon Flex was her second. Gotcha. Yeah, she's facing her films out, if you notice. It's cool. Maybe I'll re-watch it. Thanks, Parker, for that titillating. Yeah. The truth just keeps coming out today. Uh, she also is the director of The Invitation from 2015, which you stand. Can we please do that eventually? Because I stand so hard. I love it. It's one of my favorite movies of the last decade. Yeah, I stand. Oh wow. I didn't know that it was that hard of a stand.

Oh, yeah. Top three for sure. And then she's also directed a segment, an XX from 2017. Have you seen this? I have not, but we also she also directed um Destroyer last year as well. Did you see Destroyer with um Nicole Kidman? No. No. So basically, neither of us have seen anything. No, I I've seen that. Well, you have seen the ones that I haven't seen. I've seen the ones you haven't seen. I think that's what that's our deal today. Well, I have such a crush on Nicole Kidman, so it's on the list. Yes, she's awesome in it. Yeah. Jennifer's Body was also written by Diablo Cody, who you just said that Karen Kusama, you didn't realize she had made so many things you'd seen.

I didn't realize Diablo Cody had made a ton of things that I'd seen. Yeah. So she was the creator of United States of Terra, a show that I was a huge fan of when I was younger. And then also wrote Young Adult from 2011 and Tully from 2018. She won Best Original Screenplay at the Academy Awards for Juno in 2007. And she sounds like the coolest person in the world because well, not just because she just seems like cool, but she has a really cool backstory because uh Correct me, I don't I'm not sure. Was she a dancer or was she a camgirl? I I can't remember. She was neither, she was a stripper. I guess all strippers are dancers, but not all dancers are strippers.

Exotic dancer, Parker. Cheese, me too. Well, she says actually in many interviews that she identifies as a needy from Jennifer's body, but she wanted to be a Jennifer. So she created this persona for herself, Diablo Cody, and started working as a stripper, as I said, full time for an adult blog that she started, and then she went on to write a memoir at 27 and then wrote Juno and won an Academy Award. So it's just like girl, yeah. Yeah, she uh her career went a mile a minute as it usually does. It went full force for like five years or so, maybe 10 years tops, and then it just kind of dwit drizzled out when this movie came out, sadly, which we'll get into why.

And but um, but yeah, so uh Jennifer's Body stars Megan Fox as Jennifer. She star her career started on the soap opera Ocean Ebb before hitting it big in Confessions of a Teenage Drama Queen in 2004. She's also been the Transformer films, which we all know that, and the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle live action movies. And you said she has three horror films listed for 2021. That's interesting. I didn't know that. Slash the near future, because I uh yeah, not all of them had dates and like maybe things are changing. Tentative. Also, uh sorry, Amanda Cyfried is needy. I'm sorry, is it Cyfred or Cyfried? I never know how to pronounce it. Cyfred? I don't know.

Miss Amanda. Um, she also got her start in soap operas before blowing up in Mean Girls from 2004 as well as well. You might also know her from the Mama Mia films, and she's in the new Blumhouse film that just came out this past weekend. You should have left. We'll see how that is. Neither one of us has seen that yet. Truthfully, do you plan on it? I mean, if it's like six bucks to rent, maybe, you know. And then I mean, I don't know if we care about the men, because this movie's not about the men, but it also stars Johnny Simmons as Chip and Adam Brody as the dude from Low Shoulder, the infamous band that yeah, starts a whole bunch of shit in the movie, but like, as you said, who cares about them?

So yeah, and actually finding out that his name is Nikolai in the movie, I was like, who said that? Yeah, pretentious, like, yeah, he's he's the guy from Low Shoulder. He has no other agency. I wrote down two summaries for Jennifer's body. The first one from IMDB says a newly possessed high school cheerleader turns into a succubus who specializes in killing her male classmates. Can her best friend put an end to the horror? And I thought it's a lame. Yeah, that's not really what I think this movie's about at all. And then on Rotten Tomatoes, they say, when small town high school student Jennifer is possessed by a hungry demon, she transitions from being high school evil, gorgeous, and doesn't she know it, uh, stuck up and ultra-attitudinal, to the real deal.

Evil, evil. Meanwhile, Jennifer's lifelong best friend needy, long relegated to Living Jennifer's shadow, must step up to protect the town's young men, including her nerdy boyfriend. And I thought that's also wrong. Yeah, yeah. Not like wrong, I guess, but like Well, that's that's kind of the whole point of this movie. Was as we'll get into it, was so misread and so misinterpreted and so malign for no other reason except for misogyny, you know, and people took away all the wrong things of things from it, and it's it's a damn shame. Thank God we've learned, and thank god we've we've embraced it since then. But yeah, those those summaries just live on forever, and they they should be changed.

They can they can change their their summaries, can't they? On Rotten Tomatoes and stuff, as like people Yeah, and then on Rotten Tomatoes, the critic score for Jennifer's body is 44%. Oh well. Yeah, the audience score 34%. Bitch. And the critics' consensus says Jennifer's body features occasionally clever dialogue, but its horror comedy premise ultimately fails to be consistently funny or scary enough to satisfy. Bitch. Yeah, and let me say up front that like I don't necessarily disagree that it's not super scary. It's not perfect at all. But to but to dismiss it so much, it's like there's so much going on here, and that's all you got away from it. That that's kind of what annoys me, you know.

And it's interesting to think that here a horror movie, or I guess a horror comedy as this is, is merited completely on is it scary enough? Is it funny enough? When I think, as we have discovered with this movie, time has shown us through movies like uh like Midsummer, that like it's not always about how shocked were you in the moment that makes something scary. And again, I think Midsummer is a little scarier than Jennifer's body. But I think that the the kind of like all or nothing mentality of that consensus is like, no. You can tell critics who don't normally watch horror films that say stuff like that because most horror films are not scary.

There's some that really bother us, depending on who you are and depending on what you what scares you, but most are not scary. Most don't, most are just they're just good movies that just happen to have some scares in them. That's the point. And for you, just as dismissive as that, it's kind of like, guys, just take a seat. Yeah, and I feel like we discuss all the time on this podcast that fear is something that's so fluid. And to me, horror is more about how you explore fear or how you use fear to express something to an audience, more than like, how much does the audience scream when you're jumping? Right. I also thought this movie is perfect for the two of us because uh in an interview with movies online, Diablo Cody compared Jennifer's Body to Carrie, which I love, and Rosemary's Baby, which you love.

I love both of those movies. They're both two of my favorites, so yeah. Yeah, but you only get one. Oh, okay, fine. You have the first one. Can I ask why she said I mean, I mean, I get the Carrie comparison, but how about like for Rosemary's baby, just as of like not being believed or not being kind of like alienated on Jennifer's part? Like, did she specify about that? Uh, I believe, yeah. It was the idea that Jennifer is being gaslit by the uh like patriarchal culture around her. Because I think a big theme of this movie in the exaggerated over-the-top world of movies, yes, Jennifer is evil because she's eating people. But when you think about it, I think the more interesting question is like, is Jennifer evil?

In what ways is she evil? In what ways is she kind of just looking out to for herself and trying to overcome? And whose fault is it that she's evil? Not hers, necessarily. I mean, yeah, she may have had a little bit of a teenage attitude problem before that. Okay, fine, most of what teenage girls do, but to go from that to eating people alive, whose fault is that? We know whose fault that is. Yeah, and I actually think the uh what I all love about this movie is that Jennifer is complex, meety is complex. I love the characters that it would be easy for them to make them these saintly characters that are then turned into something diabolical, but it's it's not as easy as that.

You know, everybody has good and they have bad. And yeah, Jennifer did seem like a bitch before she was turned into someone evil, but that doesn't mean she's a bad person and that she deserved to be made evil. And I think we're we should really start off. I know it's a weird place to start off, but the sacrifice scene that is it's up until that point, you you're watching, you're watching Needy and Jennifer's friendship unfold, you're seeing another kind of dynamic, you're seeing like, you know, it might maybe slightly on the unhealthy side because like needy, I don't know, like they're they have a weird, they have a weird dynamic. She's needy, she's needy, and then ironically, Jennifer becomes needy, yeah.

But um, but it's you're seeing her big eyes, and she's watching these guys who she's a teenage girl, she's watching musicians that she admires and she thinks that are hot, and she's just watching them like with doe eyes, and you see the innocence in her, and Megan Fox is so good throughout the whole thing, but especially in the scenes that are more vulnerable. Then when she gets approached by these dudes, of course, she's the most beautiful girl on the bar. Everyone knows that she's gonna get approached by the the guys in the band, of course. And when she tries to dodge their threats, the danger by saying by lying and saying that she's a virgin, which we which she which we all know that she's not a virgin, she's not even a backdoor virgin, as she said.

Um when she uses that, interestingly, that is a threat. Her for her lack of virginity, the fact that she is sexual is what gets her screwed. It it's it's really interesting how Diablo Cody plays on that, but like that scene is so so hard to watch. And it's probably the only scene that's really like actually difficult to watch for me. I don't know about you, but like it's I like I it makes me sad. It's like because it's like you're like watching she's screaming and she's and she's like crying, and these guys are just laughing at her. It makes me think of like the Brett Kavanaugh case, and like that it's like all that shit with like I mean coming forward and saying, like, yeah, I was being raped, and these dudes, these frat boys are just laughing at me, and like that happens all the time.

And we're I'm gonna I'm gonna use this this uh interview of a lot because it was just so informative. But last year, the 10th anniversary, um, at Beyond Fest, the vulture writer um Jordan Cruciano, Cruciello, I forget exactly her last name, but she had did a Q ⁇ A with Megan Fox and uh Karen Kusama. And she had noted that that Megan Fox had noted that that scene in particular was her relationship with studios and execs that looked at her as a sacrifice, that looked at her as absolutely just a piece of meat, did not they didn't care one iota about her wellness, her well-being, and she felt like she was being thrown to the wolves constantly, and that's that's what she used in that moment to get to that vulnerable place while they were filming.

And that made me really sad. And like we can get more into like Megan Fox and her background and during all this, but like that's just you feel that. Like you feel that scene is like I think one of the most short one of the most effective scenes in the movie for me. Yeah, and I think what's also heartbreaking about that is you said that you can see the innocence and the fear in her eyes when that's happening. And similar to what you were just saying, and a lot of this movie, it's crazy how much it parallels like Jennifer or Jennifer, Megan Fox's real life. Because, you know, she talks about how maybe I I think this was on the she did a 10-year anniversary interview with Diablo Cody for EW.

And she said that maybe she does seem like a bitch to people on sets and things, but that's just she said because she had to put up this wall because she was becoming so like offensive, I think. Yeah, and she was saying that all of the criticism and all of the like shit she was having to take for just being like a beautiful woman, yeah, with an opinion. People hated that she actually. I mean, there was a whole controversy with with uh Michael Bay when she went, she spoke up about how he was a tyrant, and she's like, he is awful to work with, he's he's a misogynist, blah blah blah. And people weren't ready for that.

People weren't ready for a a woman of that caliber, of that of that fame and that beauty to be like, yo, this guy's a dick, and I'm calling him out publicly. They hated that, and she got maligned for it. Yeah, and so she said that she had to kind of put up this wall because she just couldn't handle how people were treating her. And I think similarly in the movie, in this scene, we see that yes, Jennifer is the mean girl of the school, maybe, but she's not at her soul that mean girl. Like that's something she's had to put on because you can see that she's kind of gone through this life of uh of having to put up with shit from men just because she's beautiful.

And needy, not that she's not also beautiful. I mean, classic movie, slap some glasses on her and suddenly she's already. But needy has gone through a life of being this like air quotes classic, like wait until well, not wait until marriage, as we see in the movie, but like marriage, uh like classic, yeah, studious and the good girl. Good girl. And so I think that that kind of contrast between them is really intriguing and makes that moment when she's sacrificed by low shoulder even more heartbreaking because you see that facade break. Right. And it's never presented in the movie as a facade until that moment. No, and yeah, that's um like as the movie goes on, and as when Jennifer comes back from all this and she's she puts on this air of like, I and I don't I say air because I think again, there's more complexity to that.

Like, she's like, I'm invincible, shit, man. I well, she calls herself a god, I'm a fucking god. Like she she burns, she tries to burn her tongue, and like she comes right back, she slashes her arms and it comes right back to the same. It's like she's she's completely free and liberated, but you know, deep down, like there's so much pain in there, and I think that's probably what what Megan Fox mirrored in real life too, took away from is like she, yeah, outwardly, it's like, oh, she's the most beautiful woman in the world, and she has she's she has all this going on, but you don't know what her pain is like every day, and you don't know what she's been through.

And as as she's come forward in the year in the recent years, you found out that she's been through a lot of shit, and she has a lot of stories about victimization and how she's wasn't believed, and she still thinks that she would not be believed because of how much women who consider themselves as feminists don't take her seriously because of how beautiful she is, because of how you know how dissy they thought that she was and she's not. Megan Fox is smart as shit, and so is Jennifer in this movie. As we see in the at the at the movie, there's this female competition happening between her and needy. Increases more and more and more, especially as needy grows and as her agency kind of increases, like she's kind of becoming like, no, I have to stop this, and she's kind of getting more of a backbone.

And Jennifer and her have this like weird, like kind of like back and forth. And be and I think it's Diablo Cody purposely writes it like that because women have always been taught to view them through each other as competition, because that's just like, oh, well, we we have to work that much harder for jobs for for men, you know, for the attention of men, for this, for that. And it's like, so we have to always look at each other like, oh, she's she's my enemy, she's the competition. And Diablo Cody really and Karen, they brilliantly have that dichotomy of like the unhealthy friend-emy relationship where it's like they care about each other, but there's still so much like animosity there because they just can't, like, they're both like you know, kind of fighting back and forth, and that's such a great that that as a woman, believe me, that happens all the time with female friendships.

It's like there's always like that one person who's just like one up above you, and you're like, damn it. And yeah, I I I love that about it. Is there any scenes you think that are particularly like stand out with that? Like just like their dichotomy that kind of comes up from that. Well, first of all, I want to say that in an interview with the boo crew from I think September of last year, 2019. If you haven't listened to it, it's pretty incredible. And um, Megan Fox talks a lot about this like archaeology show she did and uh how she like can sense spirits and knows where the Ark of the Covenant is. But when she's not talking about that, she was talking about Jennifer's body, and she talked specifically about what you were just saying and how she thinks that, like we were saying earlier, in this kind of patriarchal world that we're brought up in, that's now starting to break a little bit.

You know, we would like more, you know, glass ceiling, whatever, shattered. But she was saying that, you know, women are trained to be the best girl. And the relationship between Needy and Jennifer, like you were saying, is that fight to be the best. And they both have their their talents and And in the end, like they can't be the best because they're different. Right. And so let's see, scenes that might show that. I mean, I think that just I mean, there's so many, right? It's like and I think the big one for me is the what the whole movie is about, but the way that they interact with men differently. How Needy is able to like wrangle uh chip as and like have like this like loving relationship.

And I keep saying Megan or Jennifer when I mean Jennifer, uh whether by intention or not, is kind of you know a serial um hooker-upper. Cancel Patriarchy Parker 2020. She sleeps with a lot of guys, sexually active, yeah. Yeah, exactly. And so I think it's kind of not about it becomes not about beating each other, but just that it's so infuriating to both of them that they're both being successful in ways that the other can't. You know, or finding happiness. They they each have insecurities the other one has that they don't have, and that they it's it's hard. It's hard it's hard watching, like everyone has insecurities, but it's hard watching like your best friend, like, oh like damn, like needy's like she's you know, Jennifer's beautiful.

Needy is more like I don't know, what's the word? Like, needy's kind of more level-headed, I guess, and Jennifer probably can't stand that. It's like it's just yeah, it definitely, I definitely agree with that. She can fly. She's just covering. It's not that impressive. God, do you have to undermine everything that I do? You are such a player hater. You're a jerk. Wow, nice insult, Panna Montana. You got any more harsh digs? You know what? You are never a good friend. Even when we're little, you used to steal my toys and pour lemonade on my bed. And now I'm eating your boyfriend. See? At least I'm consistent. Why do you need him? Huh? You could have anybody that you want, Jennifer.

So why chip? Is it just to take me off? Or is it because you're just really insecure? I am not insecure, needy. God, that's a joke. How could I ever be insecure? I was the snowflake queen. Yeah. Two years ago when you were socially relevant. I am still socially relevant. And when you didn't need laxatives to stay skinny. I am going to eat your soul and shit. It's owl last night! You only murdered boys. I go both ways. And again, I love how complex this movie can be because they're both also exploiting each other. You know, all of the reviews and things I was seeing from 2009 were like the most unbelievable thing about this movie is that Jennifer and Needy would be friends in the first place.

And I think that it's not unbelievable because they both benefit from being friends with each other. You know, Jennifer kind of has a little like lackey she can kick around because she knows Needy's not going to stand up for her. And Needy knows that she's friends with the coolest girl in school. So it's not like they're not benefiting from being friends with each other. Absolutely. And then we see those, we see those roles subverted. I mean, Needy doesn't become the coolest girl in school, but she learns to stand up to Jennifer, and Jennifer kind of becomes the the like small, shriveling, sad girl that she views Needy as. When Jennifer's body premiered, it was made on a budget of estimated approximately 16 million dollars.

And it's opening weekend, it made slightly less than 7 million. In total in the US, it made 16 million in the box office and overall made about 31 worldwide. Wow. So it was viewed as a pretty big flop. And there are a lot of behind the scenes things going into that. Karen Kusama, Diablo Cody, and Megan Fox have all been very vocal about how mishandled the movie was marketing-wise. But I want to know what you think has changed in the past 10 years that has kind of renewed this movie for reappraisal. You know, it's funny. I I didn't see it when it first came out. So I was so this came out in September of 2009.

I was 19. I was just entering my college sophomore year. So I didn't see it quite then because I think I just wasn't seeing new movies yet. But I remember being like, that looks kind of cool. And I was always down for a new horror film. So I was like, that looks kind of interesting. And then hearing Yeah, and it sounds like you were the perfect age for it. Exactly. Yeah. And then hearing, um, you know, reading and hearing and reading bad reviews, and I was like, yeah, you know, and I didn't I didn't really think either way of Megan Fox. I was just like, you know, she's whatever. And didn't bother watching it. About a year later, when I did see it, I was like, damn, like this is like I love this movie.

And I remember I felt weird telling people that I loved it because it was such a malign movie. It was not the cool thing to love. But apparently there were tons of people out there who also loved it, but it was just it was such a like uncool thing to like that it was just like, oh, I guess we won't say anything. But I always thought it was good. And then I want to say within the last I think it was right after the Harvey Weinstein stuff started coming out, when the Mewtwo movement really kicked into gear. That's when things, I think the conversation really started shifting in like early 2018 or s or so. Um I think you had you were telling me before the podcast, it was either either a Vox article or either or a Mary Sue article I I had seen that was like, when are we gonna forgive Megan Fox for and we're when are we gonna acknowledge the apologize for Jen for Jennifer's body?

And everyone was like, and everyone started coming out like, yeah, I like it too. I like it too. You know, and then it became like and now thank God, you know, like two a year and a half, two years later, we're all like, Yeah, no, we this is good stuff here. We just weren't ready for it at the time. Yeah, I also saw a pretty early uh Vice article about it. Yeah, I don't know who was first or what started it, but I think people just no one's first in anything. Yeah, but I think honestly, we just we we are we are it's progress takes a while, right? So like even though it's like 2009, 10 years ago, like we've come a long way, you know, we have we have come a long way, you know, then and it's like yeah, but we still didn't take women completely seriously.

And of course, and there's still people out there who don't, but you know, a few, but it's just like we still didn't take everything was like, oh, she's just a victim, she's just playing a victim. Well, now we believe women more. Now we're taking women women's stories serious more seriously, and that that movie is such a Me Too movie, you know, it's such even though some of it is kind of like even a woman being being the predator, but it's like it it's it's it's real and it's tangible, and people people just I guess wanted to open their eyes to it and realize how clever it is and how smart it is and how much it was like 10 years ahead of its time, you know, and I um sometimes that that's what happens with great cult movies that they're they're not it they're not taken seriously when they first come out.

They're they're they're a box office bomb, and then all of a sudden someone's like, wait a minute, guys, let's put them on midnight and watch it together, and everyone's like, Yeah, this movie rules, and they find each other and there's a fandom there, and uh thank God that happened with Jennifer's body too. Yeah, I think that it's weird because this is by no means not this is not the first like women, women's issue centric horror movie to ever come out. So it's weird that and I also don't think that this movie is subtle about what it's saying at all. And so it's weird that it just completely went over everybody's heads when uh, you know, there are movies this I saw this compared endlessly to ginger snaps, or um there's even an episode of Buffy the Vampire Slayer that I love where there's a fraternity sacrificing kidnapping women at parties and sacrificing them to a big lizard monster who gives them wealth.

Yeah. So it's like it's this isn't the first of its kind by any means. So it's crazy to me that it flew over people's heads. And I mean, there's a lot of talk about how the perception of who's allowed to like horror has changed. It's no longer just uh a genre for boys, even though it never was really. Straight boys. Uh yeah, and I think that it's also maybe a difference between this and like Carrie or Rosemary's Baby, like we said, is that this is a movie made by women starring women. But like even something I I don't I think you said you don't you never seen Jawbreaker, right? From 90 from 98. I have not seen Jawbreaker.

That probably is similar to that too, where it's like it is Rose McGowan is the snarky bitch, and she's truly a bitch in that movie, but you love her because she doesn't give a shit. You know what I mean? And like, and people, some people just were not ready for movies that contain like the the beautiful, not that it matters, you know, what what someone looks like, but it's like the beautiful woman who just totally says whatever she has to say, who's intelligent. People still quite weren't ready for that, and they weren't ready for Megan Fox, and you know, now they they more so are than than that. Yeah, and I guess what was difficult for people to tackle is that you know, thinking about ginger snaps, those are two like kind of like emo outcast girls, and you know, it's always it does seem like these movies even carry, they tend to be about the outcast becoming a woman or whatever.

Jennifer is a very stereotypical, like bombshell. You know what it is? It's it's a lot of like who feels sorry for her, she's the hot girl, you know, whatever. I feel so bad for her. That's what a lot of it is. It's a lot of like, geez, she has everything. Who cares? Like when people people say, Oh, celebrities, like, you know, what do they have to be sad about? It's like, yeah, they might have money and this and that, but they still have their sole human beings with problems, you know what I mean? It's the same kind of mindset with with beautiful women, like or attractive men. It's like, oh, you know, poor them. And it's like, no, she's still a person underneath that.

She still has to deal with a lot of shit. And the movie portrays that kind of like, you know, yeah, it's not always easy being the super duper hot girl. People treat hot girls like shit too, you know. Yeah, and this idea that like she had it coming, like we said earlier, that comes from both men and it can come from women who are prejudiced against women like that too. And Jennifer even said, uh my god, Megan, fine. Megapher or Megapher. She even said that um she had dreams, and if she needed to be this like hot girl, then she was gonna do it. And she thinks it's frustrating that she couldn't be taken seriously for being, you know, an attractive girl.

You know, it's always this. Uh, have you watched Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt? No, I haven't. I've heard good things, but yeah, there's like this hilarious interaction between Kimmy and there's like a young college girl. I look like a hooker. They're called sex workers and they're heroes. Thank you. I'm taking power, gender, and marginalization, and contemporary yogurt from our spectrum. Seventh-way feminism is all about owning our sexuality. If we discuss like this, what are we saying? That we can't feminism. So your butt looks good. For you. There's always this idea that it's one or the other. And like I said earlier, Jennifer's body says, fuck you. No, women can be what they want. Jennifer's body's very postmodern, which I which which weirdly, like you would think, like as you said, you think people be would be ready for that because we had tons of postmodern movies in the 90s and 2000s.

Like there's been tons of movies. Even God, even Sex in the City is a postmodern feminist look at like, you know, women doing whatever the fuck they want. And you know, but again, people still quite were quite ready to just let women just do like be sexual. Be people couldn't stand also that she was a teenager and she was extremely sexually active. That people still had issues with that. Nowadays, I think you know, now we we we're more so we're we're more likely to teach like safe sex to teenagers, like they're gonna have sex, but it's safe if it's safe sex, okay, fine. But like people still quite weren't ready for a girl who was that vulgar.

I I I know like a character, I should say who's that vulgar. I know, like, for me and my friends, like as you said, like I was the same age as the character in the in you know in the movie, more or less, and like that's how we talked. Like, we we cursed, we said hard, we used hard, hard language, and you know, in a joking, fun way, but like that's that's what it really was like. Like Diablo Cody nails what a snarky teenage girl sounds like, you know. Oh, yeah, and there's some really good lines from this movie. I mean, like, and like cla like ones that I don't even think you have to have seen Jennifer's body to know some of these lines.

Like, um Oh hi, Chip. It smells like Thai food in here. Have you guys been fucking you're gross? Yeah, there's I mean, there's so many. Even the one I noticed, even the one I said earlier was just like, I'm not even a backdoor virgin. Like she just she's so she is so quick. She's she's like a pistol, and people just, you know, they just weren't ready for that then. Yeah, so Diablo Cody, like it Diablo Cody, Karen Kusama, and Megan Fox have all talked about how horribly this movie was mismarketed because they wanted it to be for young men who thought Megan Fox was hot. And I even studio execs wanted it right, just to just to clarify.

Oh, yeah, yeah, sorry. Language Parker. And Diablo Cody even said that when they had like a like screen test that the markets that they brought in to watch the movie were fans of Juno and young, like straight men. And that the straight men were mad because they weren't seeing boobies and they were seeing men slaughtered, and the Juno fans were mad because they didn't know this was gonna be a horror film. Yeah. So I think that, like, you know, you're a professional journalist. I'm a wannabe. It's it's strange to think that I love film criticism. I think it's so exciting and fun to have this discourse, but at the same time, in a situation like this, it's it's bizarre to look at the power that it can have to totally sync something.

And like you said, you read the bad reviews and you you don't go see it. Even if like I've taken it to heart to be like, you know what, if I'm interested, I'm gonna go see it anyway. And then, you know, if I agree with everyone, I agree. But it's just so strange how like fully this movie was sunk. I remember when I was in uh 2009, I mean, I guess I was in like junior high high school, and this movie came out. It was kind of like the thing where I think I've said on the podcast before, like, I kissed a girl by Katy Perry came out, yeah, and I was like, that song is so sinful and gross, but then secretly I loved it.

And this movie was the same thing where it's like I had heard, because I grew up in a very conservative, like religious community, and I had heard like how evil and corrupt this movie was, and I was like, yeah, totally. And then I saw it a few years later, and I remember I snuck the DVD, like I bought it, I watched it in my room, and I was like, this movie is funny, and I mean not scary, but I was also new to scary movies, so I was like, it is thrilling, but it's also like queer and it's rebellious, and those things were just really exciting to me. And so again, it's strange to look back at 2009 and see how maligned this movie was, like universally.

Well, I think another thing too is that this movie to some degree, because I I I think some people looked at as like the the men as that one, was it Rotten Tomatoes was like, oh, the poor high school boys are need to be saved by needy. It's like womp womp. Like, but like if you look at a different way, it's like the boys were kind of humiliated in this movie. And I think people, again, were not, they were like, Oh, how dare they? How dare they make a movie where a teenage girl humiliates little mates, you know, uh high school boys, it's like, oh my god, that blatant under misogyny of just like, you know, how dare they?

How make that you know, I feel embarrassed watching this movie. And I mean, I I know like even not gonna say who, but like one of my editors that I write for publicly has always said he's you know he couldn't stand this movie. And then he goes, I I rec I realize now that I I it was not meant for me. I was he was, you know, maybe like a 25-year-old guy at the time. It wasn't meant for him, it wasn't made for him. And uh yeah, they um I mean, even the trailer, which I think the trailer, had you have you seen the trailer recently? Did you rewatch it? I have, and I was going to ask you about it because for all the nonsense that the marketing gets for this movie, it's it's not it's not wrong, it's not all face.

I think the one thing, and Megan Fox did say this in in the interview I had watched the Q ⁇ A panel. She goes, I know for a fact that they're gonna make the kiss between Needy and I as the big focal point. And they're not wrong, they're not wrong by sexualizing, I mean, you know, but they but they unfortunately they sexualized it and in in the way that it was intended, which was to be like kind of like an awakening for these two girls who've had this like weird tension-filled dynamic between them. That's what it was intended. But of course, the you know, the dudes who, the bros who showed up for the screenings and the critics who, you know, were ready for this were like, oh, you know, it's like, oh yeah, it's a nice, it's a little hot scene with between Megan and Amanda.

It's like, yeah, but it's also like it's meant to be an awakening, which I I I've I've actually read and heard fans say that this was like a sexual awakening for them for queerness. I'm curious to hear from you what you make of that scene because I for a while I thought of it as a little bit exploitative, as if like they were trying to make try they're trying to use like a bisexuality as like, oh, look, look how like like um fetus fetishize it for lack of better words. Like you're kind of like, look at how these two girls make it out. Now I feel like it was more intimate than that. So I'm curious what you, as a queer, as a queer man, what you think.

Well, as a lesbian, I have two opinions. My first one is that for me personally, uh, we were talking about before we started uh recording. Uh you told me you're going to ask me about this scene, so I just re-watched it real fast. It is a lot longer than I remembered it being when I watched it, and it's like completely silent. And so I I think it is it is hot, it is erotic. Um, but at the same time, I found it very manipulative. And uh I did on the Boo Crew interview, they also have Diablo Cody on, and Diablo Cody says, like, Needy is queer and in love with Jennifer. So it's can and it's fact.

But I think what what is unsettling to me about this moment that would stop it from being like a guy's jerk fast is that Jennifer knows that Needy is in love with her and she's using this moment to get her back on her side and to create a moment between them. And so I think this moment for me was more discomfort. I do think it's hot. So, like, you can do what you will with that. I think there's also they discuss throughout the movie that Jennifer and Needy have done a certain amount of experimentation throughout their lives. They used to play boyfriend and girlfriend together, they always share their bed at slumber parties. Yeah, that's right.

I forgot about that. Yeah. And to me, as like a queer person, a gay man, uh, that resonated with me a little bit because growing up, there were boys who'd be like, we should just like play truth or dare. And like it always like got a little out of hand. And I always looked forward to it, of course. But it's like there is this like desire, whether you're gay or not, which you know, Jennifer, she says it, she comes out, good for her, bisexual, needy, it seems a little bit of a more internal battle, but I believe. But I think it's all about like experimentation when you're younger, especially as you're starting to discover your body, is necessary.

And usually when you're a young girl or you're a young boy, like it's there's also who's available for that? Who are you going to slumber parties with? You're not going to co-ed slumber parties. So I think it's kind of a combination of like this is a resonant experience for a lot of young people that you experiment in ways that maybe aren't totally expressive of your sexuality, but are more expressive of sexuality in general and how you were discovering your own body. Jennifer's body, literally. I don't know, the way the way that Kusama shoots this is interesting because it is like you said, it is very long and it is very like it it's very intimate and close up in their faces, and it's it it feels a little bit pornographic initially, but it's not, but it feels a little bit like that.

Um I think that maybe one of the movie's flaws is that yes, it's queer, and I do want to ask you. More about queerness after this, remind me. But like, yeah, that is a queer scene, but should we should we kind of lower it to just like being like, oh, here's these two chicks making out because it's hot because it's Megan Fox and it's it's two really pretty actresses. It's like, is that okay? Just because it's a woman admitting it. Um, I don't know. I don't know if it is or not. That that's that is one of the movies' flaws where I was like, I don't get why this is in here exactly for a long time.

I get it more now, but I'm like, I think, and I again I want to ask you, aside from the kiss scene, what there's other things that make this movie queer, I think, with in an attitude more say, and I want to know what you think about that because I would definitely think as as an ally, I think there are bigger things here that are more takeaways than just like that one simple scene of the kissing. Like there's more like identity issues here going on that would maybe relate to a queer person, perhaps. I think that one, and I'm not trying to feed into any stereotypes that like gays are like more sexual, you know, there's always like this thing, the gay men are slut.

That I'm not trying to feed into something like that. But I do just think that the like overt and open over-the-top sexuality of the movie just does feel a little queer to me in general. Sure. Specifically just because it kind of perhaps like more openness with sexuality. Is that what it kind of more so like yes, but also just like to me, especially maybe like 10 years ago, just the idea that someone would be so expressive sexually and be open about it, just seems counter to heteroculture. Yeah. And so that, first of all, kind of big picture. Second of all, superficially, is that football player gay? Oh, did you feel like he was like in love with that guy that was dead?

Yeah, that's because he kept crying about him. Did Diablo Cody ever acknowledge that in interviews or anything? Did she like No? And I'm not saying that straight men can't cry about their dead friends, but I was also like, oh my god, where's the scene where they kiss? That's what Parker wants in this movie. Him and the corpse. Yeah, I would I would not knowing how Diabo Cody, like how she thinks, I would not be surprised if that was like a little like, eh, let me just make this a make him a little bit more of the queer side, and then if people pick it up, they do, if they don't, they don't. Who knows? Yeah. Uh so that first of all, I also think so, first of all, something I'm very into right now is that nothing, like I've been saying a million times throughout this episode, is finite.

Nothing is one or the other. You know, we're no longer on a binary gender scale. I don't think sexuality is ever binary. So to say that this is a movie about lesbians, it's you know, Needy has sex with her boyfriend and she chooses to. She's not forced into that, and she doesn't have a good time, but I mean, that's not because she's a lesbian. So I do think we're also dealing with a very sliding scale of sexuality within these ladies. That's what I was gonna say too. I I think I think I read Jennifer as more pansexual, perhaps. I don't know about needy, I don't know enough about Eve. I think Jennifer's just more like she's just like sex, and she just likes she likes to use sex for power.

Um, and I'm not that's that's not what pansexuality is. I'm just saying that just like she just kind of just wants to have sex with anyone that she can, which would perhaps such a guess that she's pansexual. So I mean, right? That could be a thing. I mean, for her. Yeah, and it's funny because when I think of pansexual, I think of it being like loving everyone regardless of gender. But yeah, Jennifer is very like, I want to have sex with everyone. Her love is sex, that's her love, and she doesn't care who with who or with what. It's you know, um, I think it's more like who she can get one up on. That's that's that's what turns her on.

It's just like I want to have sex with anyone I can who just makes me feel more powerful about myself, you know. Yeah, and I think the other like queer flags in this movie is one, there's a reason I think Jennifer is killing boys that needy specifically has expressed affection for. She kills her boyfriend Chip, she kills the emo guy that she thinks is cool after Nidi says, I think he's cool. I think that has something to do with it. You know, she's like, I want what she wants because I want to eliminate that competition. I want to be what she wants, and I want to be the only thing she wants. Yeah. Aside from the kiss, think about how sensual actually Jennifer's death scene is.

See, that that's another thing too. Yeah, it is. And it is kind of a little bit sad, and I I think it's intended to be a little bit sad. That also kind of always confused me too. And again, I I I mean, as you probably can tell, I do love this movie, but it always that was one of its flaws too, where it's like, did she have to die? Did she have to die? Did it does a is it really that big of a deal if Jennifer kills boys? You know, I think I think I'm kidding, but like I think had this movie been made now, I don't know if they would kill her off. I think they because it's like people are like, well, why is the woman gotta die?

Why does she have to be you know she was already sacrificed once? Why is she hurt again? Um, yeah, there is a weird intimacy in that. I think the hard line with what you just said though is that so I watched a really terrible YouTube video kind of breaking down Jennifer's body and saying how they would have fixed it to make it a better make it a better movie. And I was like, calm down, you know, please go make your own movie for that good. Yeah, you're you're irrelevant. I know. And one of the main complaints was that Jennifer is he they say that um, because I'm not naming names here, but they say that Jennifer is not actually seeking revenge because she's not killing the people who did did this to her, and I think that's such like a micro way of looking at this movie because it's not, yeah, maybe like a more clean metaphor would for her to be tracking down the singers of Low Shoulder.

Which they get to do eventually. They do, and I actually have a thought about that too, because now my brain's really ticking. But she's it's not that low shoulder does this to her, it's that men do this to her. It's not that low shoulder wasn't the first one to treat Jennifer this way. She she says it in jokes and she says it in passing, which is a red flag if you're ever like in real life hearing people joke about like weird things. And I'm not saying that just because she is very sexually active that all of these were like aggressive situations, but like you get the sense that maybe, as we were saying earlier, as the hot girl, she's been mistreated sexually by men in the past.

So it's not that she has she's getting revenge on low shoulders, that she's getting revenge on men and how they've objectified her. Yes. No, I was just gonna say that's kind of takes me back to like I was like, you know, does she have to die in this movie? Like, does she really have to after all she's been through, does she really have to die? Like, I you know, I guess that's always been a little bit confusing to me, but go on. Well, the hard metaphor there is if you look at it that way, to think that like a woman can't recover. That that's what I think is hard about this. But the rules of the movie is that Jennifer is pretty much dead, and what we're seeing is the demon.

So, I mean, I think plot-wise, it makes sense that she had to die. But so in college, when I was a senior dance major, we had to choreograph a dance for to this like produced show both semesters. And the first semester, I made a dance not inspired by Jennifer's body, but now maybe. Uh, it was called Becoming. And it was about it was a group of ladies in this dance, and it was about these two ladies that were the same person, but they were battling with each other to like accept each other, and to be like they were like two aspects of somebody's mind, me choreographing it thinking like a gay man, having this like one side of your mind that wants to be true to himself, and the other side that's afraid of that.

And Jennifer's body to me is similar. And first of all, Diablo Cody said that she's always been a needy, but she wants to be a Jennifer. Right. Then going off of this dance that I choreographed, that was really intellectual. The idea that Needy and Jennifer are just two aspects of the same character, and that in the end, Needy says that by killing Jennifer, she absorbed her power. I think that it's not about Jennifer had to die because she'd been mistreated. I think it's more that Jennifer and Needy both had to die to create this like one empowered woman that could recover and could grow. Not saying women should experience this so that they can grow, but that they could grow from their trauma.

Sure. That no, that that actually makes sense. And actually that that does make me appreciate it a little bit more. Yeah. Thank you. Uh the other thing that Diablo Cody said about that scene is that my favorite line in the whole movie is Needy stabs her in the heart and she goes, sorry. No, your heart. And Diablo Cody said that that line is one of her favorites too, because Jennifer's been trained to think of herself as tits. And Needy is saying, No, there's a heart under there. There is a we we were talking about we couldn't think of stuff earlier. I I remember like there is this one line that's so dirty. It's like she's like, When I'm full, it's when I'm full.

I feel full. Like, and it's like that's such a sexual, like, I'm like, oh my god, that's so dirty. Like, she's like, like you would think, and I think of that. I'm like, nowadays, you're like, oh, and means like we just got some G. Like, it's like that's so like overtly sexual, and like even with like she would she would call her like needy, like, enough with the screaming, you're such such a cliche, and it's like she's so like she's like such a whip. Like, she's she's well, my favorite is when she says, I rented aquamarine, she's like half sushi. Yeah. Let's talk about the very ending. That's what we need. We need to because that's that I think is the one of the best parts of the movie, is when Needy comes in that saves a day and fucking brutalizes all those dudes in low shoulder and gets their day.

And she we're made to think that she possibly is gonna get away with it. I know that the last shot is like her looking up at the camera, right? The security camera. I think that's the last that's all we see. So I don't know if an honor. Yes, I but I don't know if she if we're supposed to think that she maybe got rid of it after because she's she sees that and she's like, I do I have to knock that shit down and get right rid of that tape, but like this movie can is kind of a rape revenge movie, sort of, sort of a mile, you know? Um a metaphoric one. A metaphorical one.

Yeah, what do you think about the very last ending? Because I think that's what like I say, like after Jennifer dies, you're like, damn, why'd she have to die? And then when that happens, I'm like, oh, you know what? She got hers, so thank god. Needy still came in and saved her friend, even though she was mad at her, even though she was resenting her for what she did to different people and to herself, she still was a loyal friend enough to have have her have her back and and kill kill those dudes. Well, I think I was viewing it a little more like big not big pig, you weren't not viewing it big page, but a little more metaphorically, uh, based on that like really intelligent thing that I said a few minutes ago.

Where um where you know, needy and Jennifer kind of aspects of the same mind fighting for harmony with each other. And I think what's so profound about this last part, because I thought you were going to say the part where she's in the asylum. I hate that. Like starting starting with the end and then going stupid. Yeah. But that's very horror trophy, you know. Ugh. But I think what's so profound about this last part is that Jennifer's pain is not just Jennifer's pain, it's a universal pain, it's a pain for all women. Men Low Shoulder is not just treating Jennifer this way, men are treating all women this way, and so Needy has to kill them because low shoulder did the same thing to her that they did to Jennifer, just not quite as literally.

Yeah, got nothing else to add. That's I totally agree. So, yes, the bisexual queens, pansexual, LGBTQ plus whatever we are labeling as, because they shouldn't be labeled, they should be themselves. Exactly. Uh, I think beautiful. What would you say from Jennifer's body is the most memorable murder? Uh, you know, I kind of love the scene. I I think it's somewhat in the beginning when Jennifer first becomes the demon, but like it's that like emo-looking dude who seems who's actually seems to be a really nice guy who's the one who needs like I think he's cool, you know. But she gores him into playing like mommy and daddy in like this random shed or whatever they are, and the shot of her, she kills him, and then the shot, it's like a shadow shot of her body.

It's rip, it's beautiful, and she's just eating him up alive. I love that. I love that. Yeah, she like rips a chunk of fish. Oh, the gore. We didn't you mentioned the gore in this is like the it's it's awesome. I love the gore in this movie. It's awesome, but at the same time, not at all gratuitous, just as the things people wanted to be gratuitous were not. Yeah, like boobs, boobs, yeah. Uh, because like you said earlier, when she like slices her arm with like a pencil or something, disgusting. Yeah. Uh, I think my most memorable would be the football player. I know it's a little cheesy when she like comes at him and her mouth kind of like rips open.

I love that though. It's very it chapter one, like the whole like raw. Like yeah, I think that's actually very striking. And then the image of his kind of like eviscerated body when the teacher finds him. I think that was really powerful. So yeah. Uh that's my vote. So I guess two-way draw. Everybody's a winner. Everyone's a winner. Uh, what would you say on a scary scale, one to five, you would rate Jennifer's body? I mean, this is again no reflection on the how I love the movie, but like it's not a scary movie. Um, I mean, it's like a two, you know. Again, that's not important, but it's like a two. I might give it a one and a half.

I mean, I love that Diablo Cody said that she wanted this to be for young women because she wanted to have a message. And I think that this movie is kind of perfect as not only like gateway horror, but also as horror that people who I mean, I always say if you say you don't like horror, you just haven't found the horror that's right for you. Yeah. But it's all this is also horror that if you just absolutely can't watch horror, there's something that can still be enjoyful, uh enjoyed and resonant about this movie. Sure. So I think that it's kind of a horror movie that transcends horror. And for us as like fans of being scared, maybe that makes it take a bit of a hit.

But I think that for its purpose as a movie, that is very successful. Would you give Jennifer's body a smash or a slash? Obviously, smash. Definitely a smash. I I I really I always love this movie. Again, I I don't I think it has it's it's not perfect, but I really do love this movie, and I'm really glad that we appreciate it now that people are discovering it more. And yeah, yay, Jennifer's body. Yeah, I would give it a smash as well. I am a little bit, a tiny teensy titty bit in the camp that this is a cool movie to talk about. Yeah. And I do really enjoy watching it. I think it's really funny, some laugh out loud moments, not very scary.

Uh I don't necessarily think it's a really good movie. I I didn't think that, like, I always liked it without, but in the past, without thinking, like, I was like, oh, you know, it it's there's a lot of stuff kind of shows its colors and it's not great. But I do, I think with every rewatch, I actually think that it's better and better. So I would say, I don't how many times have you how many times have you seen it? Do you know? Like a handful times. I have it on DVD, baby. Okay, okay. Um, yeah, I've watched it like, I mean, I could count on a hand. I haven't seen it like 20 times. But I mean I've seen it more than three.

Yeah, I don't I don't know. Maybe maybe it does maybe just does go with appreciation as you get older, but yeah, I I or every rewatch, but yeah, I really again it's not perfect, but I think I think they're maybe the discourse is a little more interesting than the actual movie itself, but it's I I'm happy it exists. Yeah, I think that it will never resonate with me as much as it did when I first saw it when I was younger. But I still enjoy it. I just think maybe I'm a little past it. Oh, excuse. I know well, no, I just think I'm like the opposite of the world. Where when I first saw it, when it was new, I was like, wow, this is incredible.

It's really speaking to me. And now I'm kind of like Jennifer's body, kind of old news, guys. You heard it, guys. It wasn't me. It was Miss King Marky Parker. I'm giving it a smash. Don't worry. I think that this is worth watching, it's worth sharing. It's still a great movie to put on at a party, but uh so on that note, you can probably guess my favorite scary movie has not changed. It is still Candyman, and I don't remember what you have said your favorite scary movie is. You know what? I'm not choosing, I'm not choosing Parker, screw you. I'm I'm saying a four-way tie between Black Christmas, House of the Devil, Scream 4, and Candyman.

Oh, and Jennifer's body left in the dirt. It's those ones are better. All right. Well, Julianne, it's been a pleasure, it's been a joy, it's been an incredible time. Yeah. Next week, um, what's your favorite scary movie? Julianne will not be back, unfortunately. But we will have a special guest, a fellow gay, to discuss the uh groundbreaking, trailblazing, apparently, according to his advertising, first of its kind, gay slasher hellbent. So I hope you're looking forward to that. I'm pretty excited too. Happy Pride. Also, it'll come out the day before my birthday. So yay! Us June Queens. Oh, I know. Julianne, your birthday was just a couple of days ago, last Wednesday. So happy birthday, Julianne. Thanks.

All right. Well, until then, when I am back to discuss Hellbent, you can head over to Apple Podcast and leave us a rating and a review. This review comes from Cherry Blue Raz Slushy. And they say, five stars, you guys are the best with a bunch of T's. And they say, I've been following this podcast since day one, and even from the trailer, before you guys even released the first episode, I was in love. And I love listening. I love every movie you do, and I like they don't love, I like the uh the chemistry and joking. It's perfect chef's kiss. But I do miss the whole gang. Sorry, Julianne, but it doesn't take away from how much I love you all.

All right, well, thank you so much, Cherry Blue Raz Slushy. That is so kind of you, and I love you too. All right, Julianne, tell us how we can find more great stuff from you. Uh, feel free to follow me on Twitter or or the gram at the Jewel Marie. Yep, and she's got all sorts of spicy, hot uh work coming out with Nightmaresh Conjurings and Bloody Disgusting. Uh, so stay tuned for more and follow her there to see all of her spooky new work. My name is Parker. You can find me on Instagram, Twitter, letterboxed at Parker Del Rey, and you can find what's your favorite scary movie on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter at ScarymoviePod.

You can follow us on Patreon where you will get a hot, hot, hot newsletter every month with some sweet writing from us and two bonus episodes every month. You can also visit our website at scary moviepod.com where we have our calendar and reviews going up occasionally when hopefully more movies are coming out. And you can send us feedback or requests at scary moviepod at gmail dot com. Goodbye, Julianne. Bye.